The Human Animal (Humans)

by xeno6696 , Sonoran Desert, Friday, August 14, 2009, 05:18 (5579 days ago) @ David Turell

To me, free will would have to be *instantaneous.* We perceive it as instant, but it isn't. A delay of 1.0s for the distances the electrical pulse has to travel is akin to being able to freeze light in place. So either thought doesn't actually move at light speed, or there's processing going on that we're unaware of. These unconscious properties are obviously *part of* free will or they wouldn't be invoked in the first place. Free will requires consciousness, if part of free will is unconscious than we only have qualified free will. 
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> I don't know how you define 'free will' at this point of our discussion. My brain is mine. My subconscious, unconscious and consciousness are all mine. There is no other power that can intrude and run my thoughts. I developed my subconscious and unconscious, no other power did. I may believe there is a universal consciousness, but I alone control all levels of my brain. 
> - Really. You control your thinking at all times? You don't have errant thoughts that break in and intrude when you are thinking about something else? When you sleep and you dream, you control that as well? You make some strong claims here. Lucid dreaming is of course possible, but not for most. - > I decide to start a car. I turn the key, put pressure on the pedal and the engine turns over. It takes a little time. I know there is a gap of 0.2-0.5 seconds when I start an activity. I don't think it is any different and I've now (Google) seen discussions that agree with me. You philosopher guys get all screwed up with too much thinking. - Heh. I like that last part. I think you're still thinking too black and white here. Yes you can do all of these things. But While you're driving, random, unwilled thoughts cross your mind. You may dismiss them, but that's not what I'm driving at. The fact that thoughts come unwilled definitely suggest that free will isn't absolute. It's an observation that's long mystified me. - Then take myself. When I was 16 I wanted to be a computer programmer. I thought I couldn't do the math. I tried to avoid it and now I'm where I should have been at 14 years ago... what role to you does the subconscious play, if you're so certain of free will?

--
\"Why is it, Master, that ascetics fight with ascetics?\"

\"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics.\"