More Denton: Reply to David (Introduction)

by dhw, Sunday, July 26, 2015, 11:33 (3408 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: It does not alter the fact that you seem unable to conceive of any form of intelligence other than our own. That is why you concoct a 3.8 billion-year-computer programme for all wonders and innovations rather than grant your God the capacity to create a different form of intelligence.-DAVID: Please note my entry today on extremophiles.-I have noted it, and am delighted to see your final questions: “...once life starts it seems it can adapt and survive in almost intolerable circumstance. How did life get this ability? Built-in with latent instructions (information), given instructions when needed, or able to develop solutions on the spot when required, which requires information analysis?” In other words: divine preprogramming, divine dabbling, or autonomous intelligence. You have summed up our whole evolutionary discussion, so thank you for at last giving these three possibilities equal billing.
 
DAVID: Those decision-making processes can all be automatic biochemical reactions, just as our kidney cells decide the urine concentrations for the day.-dhw: “Can be”. They can also be mental processes, just as our brain produces decisions, strategies, and inventions. You have already agreed that each possibility is as likely as the other, and yet you still exclude one because it does not fit in with your preconceptions.-DAVID: They are not mental processes. As shown in research reported today they are automatic alterations in gene expression controlled by specialized proteins.http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150724151844.htm-The first words show that the article is dealing with “biological functions”: “In plants as in animals and humans, intricate molecular networks regulate key biological functions, such as development and stress responses.” I would also assume that these are automatic. Does TOPLESS explain how a weaverbird designs its nest, ants design a city, or - to return to my favourite hunting ground - bacteria decide to form communities to exploit the opportunities offered by a million and one different environments? Pfeffer's bacteria could not have got to the soup without automatic perceptions and automatic movements, but what made them decide to swim through the poisoned disinfectant? You are happy to consider research on automatic behaviour, but why do you ignore research on behaviour that suggests intelligence? -dhw: When Tony disagreed with you that humans were God's purpose in creating the universe, you shifted the focus to humans being the pinnacle because they were the most complex. (I presume you now accept that this only applies mentally and not physically.)
DAVID: I think God controlled evolution as His mechanism to produce beings that could relate to Him. Humans are vastly different: "The difference of Man and the Difference It Makes", is not just mental but physical. Imagine ape basketball if you can! Humans have always been the pinnacle. Tony uses ancient texts, not rational articles. My thoughts have never changed.-I am aware that you think you know God's intentions. I am also aware of man's vast mental abilities. Physically, we are not THAT different from the apes, and if you think basketball makes us physically superior to the rest of the animal kingdom, then try going without water for six months like a camel, or jumping 200 times the length of your body like a flea...and I wouldn't advise you to have a wrestling match with a grizzly bear. I agree that we are the mental pinnacle of evolution, at least so far. However, I don't know of any rational articles in which God informs us of his intentions, and some people might regard the fact that your thoughts have never changed as evidence of a closed mind. Ts ts!