Living cells communicate (Introduction)

by dhw, Monday, October 08, 2012, 16:21 (4431 days ago) @ David Turell

Dhw: We have agreed that energy is the eternal "first cause" (whether conscious or unconscious), Therefore the argument concerning infinite and eternal combinations still stands, not even limited to events since the Big Bang, but extending for ever and ever. -DAVID: Energy has always existed eternally. However, time for us began at the Big Bang. Therefore there is no 'before' before the Big Bang, since a 'before' is a time phenomenon. -DAVID: As Alan Guth (the discoverer of inflation theory) points out: the theory of the Big Bang does not tell us anything about what banged, why it banged, or what might have caused it to bang from whatever energy was available at the time. But he agrees with Vilenkin, no 'before' before the Big Bang. They call it 'past incomplete'. Two papers ten years apart, on Stephen Hawkings 60th and 70th birthdays! Disagreeing with some if his favorite thoughts! Since he tends to be an eternal multiverse guy.-If you believe in eternal energy, and you believe in the Big Bang, and you believe that the Big Bang banged "from whatever energy was available at the time", how can you argue that there was no 'before'? This is simply playing word games. "Time for us began at the Big Bang" is just another way of saying that OUR universe and OUR concept of time began at the Big Bang. But that does not mean that our concept of 'before' is wrong. Nor our concept of sequent cause and effect (before and after) ... inescapable if you think that intelligent energy (your first cause) created our universe. What makes you think anyway that Guth and Vilenkin are right and Hawking is wrong? Is it perhaps because you dislike the idea of eternal and infinite combinations, as that increases the odds in favour of chance? I see no way round this if you argue that "energy has always existed eternally". Eternal energy means infinite potential, past as well as future. But never fear, I'm not trying to pull you up onto my fence. I'm explaining why you can't pull me down!