Purpose and design (Evolution)

by David Turell @, Wednesday, April 26, 2017, 18:21 (32 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: I was applauding: "does fall into the larger category of benefiting humanity specifically and all life in general." Nothing more. It does not support my anthropocentric thesis by itself. See my entry on fine tuning: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 14:59

dhw: It does not support your anthropocentric thesis at all. Nor does fine tuning, which supports the case for design, not for anthropocentrism.

Look at the process of creation. To find a reason for evolution look at the current endpoint: humans. Seems like a strong solution and evidence for a purpose.

DAVID: I don't expect you to agree. Everything we see is designed to produce life which resulted in humans. The result speaks for itself.

dhw: If the result spoke for itself, there would be no disagreement. But perhaps you would clarify whether there is or is not a shift in your thinking. Do you now regard humans as A major purpose or as THE only purpose?

No shift. The endpoint of evolution is the most complex organism ever evolved, humans. God might have other purposes. Can you suggest some?

dhw: Nobody is “aware” of any of God’s purposes. We can only speculate on what they might be. Will you therefore now agree, as you did once before, that the relief of loneliness might have been his purpose in creating life?

It is possible since we have consciousness and can relate intimately to His.

DAVID: Stating God has humanly bored solved nothing about His purpose. He wanted an introspective consciousness capable organism.

dhw: It is not a “solution”, it is a hypothesis to explain why he created life. Creating a consciousness like his own has resulted in the most complex, unpredictable and riveting spectacle of all – the best possible antidote to boredom. Creating an introspective consciousness for no reason whatsoever tell us nothing about his purpose.

I've given you a reason in the past: a conscious relationship. I have no reason to think He was bored, but I am sure He follows and watches what humans do. We are certainly unpredictable.

DAVID: I don't read Tony's comment as you do. His list of attributes is not the one you give. He may well have emotional depth, but it is beyond us to know.
dhw: Back you go to unknowability. His existence and his purpose are also “beyond us to know”. But if you believe your God is capable of emotion, you cannot dismiss the possibility that he is capable of boredom, interest, love, hate etc.
DAVID: We cannot know which of your list, if any He experiences. He should be interested in His creations, which is not really an emotion, if He is the designer.

dhw:Still harping on about unknowability. We needn’t faff around trying to define what is or isn’t “emotion”. If he is capable of interest, he is also capable of boredom and/or loneliness.

By definition showing 'interest' is not emotion. His response to what He sees is an emotion. He may well be bored or lonely. We cannot know.

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