Panentheism (Religion)

by xeno6696 , Sonoran Desert, Thursday, April 26, 2012, 00:15 (4595 days ago) @ dhw

Under "How Reliable is Science?"
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> MATT: Look what happened when I caught panentheism in its logical trap: David shut down. He didn't want to engage anymore. In fact, he deliberately asked I stop talking about it. (And if you read this David, again, panentheism is false by definition. You're a pantheist.)
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> DAVID: I'm not sure of anything by the way you define. My concept of me by the definitions I've read is I am a panentheist. Maybe the dictionaries are wrong. An issue of no importance. Still has to be a first cause. God made the universe from His mind and He is within and without the universe. We are contained by him.
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> I must confess that I also have difficulty distinguishing between pantheism, panentheism and process theology, though it probably makes little difference since David doesn't need to classify his beliefs. What interests me is the concept of "within and without the universe", which initially doesn't seem to make much sense. However, if we link it to the mystery of consciousness, it becomes conceivable. Near Death Experiences once again provide us with the best illustration of the mind appearing to exist independently of the body. Of course it's all a huge "IF", but the concept would have to be along the lines of the material universe as the body and God as the mind, just as my identity is contained within its physical self and may control its physical self, but at the same time may exist in a dimension different from any that we know. If we take NDEs and other psychic phenomena seriously, this is a concept that must also be taken seriously. I think that pantheism, at least in its original form, identifies God with Nature ... and as such need not conflict with atheism, since Nature can be viewed as a purely material and impersonal force. That would be very different from David's ...ism.-Technically speaking... if he wants us to understand him better, I would at least hope he does. -Vaishnavism (Hinduism) is pantheistic, and generally encompasses the views that David discusses. Their criticism of panentheism is essentially where I got my argument from. God is everything.

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\"Why is it, Master, that ascetics fight with ascetics?\"

\"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics.\"