Reason Rally (Introduction)

by xeno6696 , Sonoran Desert, Wednesday, April 04, 2012, 05:00 (4595 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained

Judging purely in a literalist light, most claims that holy books have made against the physical universe have been overturned by exactly this process. We know for example, that Zeus is NOT throwing lightning bolts down from Olympus. 
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> I have actually never seen a holy book regarding greek mythology. All I have seen are books like the Illiad and the Odyssey which are presented from a story tellers format. That being said, I have not once claimed that every religion was 100% accurate. Though, I have a strong suspicion that some are more accurate than others in different respects. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. 
> -Homer's take on the Gods and Goddesses was taken as Canon by most. A few philosophers, notably Diogenes, and earlier, my 'nymsake Xenophanes were stark critics of the prevailing Homeric personifications. But their popularity was ultimately dwarfed by Plato and Homer. -> > As opposed to what? I'm currently reading "Everything Forever" by a Gevin Giobran. He makes an extremely good argument that science unnecessarily has assumed that the 2nd law means disorder. The argument is based on the observation that we have two types of order in the universe--symmetry order and grouping order. Meaning, that our ideas of "disorder" are wrong. What we identify as disordered patterns are all systems where order is mid-transformation from one kind of order to the other. I'm still mid-read, but this is compelling work. If we establish that in all frames of reference--with or without God--there is no such thing as nonexistence, then that also means there is no such thing as disorder. 
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> Actually, if they were able to prove that there is no such thing as energetic disorder it would be a milestone step in proving an intelligence behind the scenes. 
> -Actually no... it wouldn't prove anything at all. Buddhists will be able to claim that yet again, we were simply chasing delusions. Atheists will view it as a sign that the universe itself is eternal, and yes, Theists will claim as you do. -If its ammo for everyone, its ammo for no one. -> > 
> > Here's where we'll disagree. Should we have questioned building the Atom bomb? Had Hitler succeeded, what then? 
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> The atom bomb was never dropped on Hitler. It was dropped on Japan. That war could have been won without it. You are completely missing the point. The fact that Hitler has, as you say further down, a Spartan mentality only serves to exemplify that modern humans are no better. 
> -I'm just going to respond to this bit, as the rest of the morality piece will clearly become its own thread. -We developed the bomb because of Hitler. Not because of the Japanese. I told you that Pinker's book has "shocked" me out of a machiavellan stance, but that said, I would have made the same decision as Truman, even now. When it comes to foreign policy I'm not one to be nice to enemies. Pinker's talking me off that ledge, however. -You're right about Rome especially when dealing with Parthia and Anatolia, but Rome had actually advanced morality beyond the Greeks. Except in that precious case of Carthage. You're missing the forest for the trees.-The moral values we have now, towards our animals, towards other men, is radically different. I hold, because we're learning from our past mistakes. -For once. -Read the book "Gates of Fire" some time. Great novel, excellently researched. Life for the average human during the time of Athens and Sparta, was short, brutal, and you always lived in fear. Our generation truly lacks that fear. -That's the final thought of the day: The decline in violence is global, but more pronounced in "Westernized" nations. [And no, its not guaranteed to last.]

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\"Why is it, Master, that ascetics fight with ascetics?\"

\"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics.\"