Reason Rally (Introduction)

by Balance_Maintained , U.S.A., Wednesday, April 04, 2012, 00:38 (4595 days ago) @ xeno6696

Judging purely in a literalist light, most claims that holy books have made against the physical universe have been overturned by exactly this process. We know for example, that Zeus is NOT throwing lightning bolts down from Olympus. 
> -I have actually never seen a holy book regarding greek mythology. All I have seen are books like the Illiad and the Odyssey which are presented from a story tellers format. That being said, I have not once claimed that every religion was 100% accurate. Though, I have a strong suspicion that some are more accurate than others in different respects. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. -> As opposed to what? I'm currently reading "Everything Forever" by a Gevin Giobran. He makes an extremely good argument that science unnecessarily has assumed that the 2nd law means disorder. The argument is based on the observation that we have two types of order in the universe--symmetry order and grouping order. Meaning, that our ideas of "disorder" are wrong. What we identify as disordered patterns are all systems where order is mid-transformation from one kind of order to the other. I'm still mid-read, but this is compelling work. If we establish that in all frames of reference--with or without God--there is no such thing as nonexistence, then that also means there is no such thing as disorder. 
> -Actually, if they were able to prove that there is no such thing as energetic disorder it would be a milestone step in proving an intelligence behind the scenes. -> 
> Here's where we'll disagree. Should we have questioned building the Atom bomb? Had Hitler succeeded, what then? 
> -The atom bomb was never dropped on Hitler. It was dropped on Japan. That war could have been won without it. You are completely missing the point. The fact that Hitler has, as you say further down, a Spartan mentality only serves to exemplify that modern humans are no better. -
> 
> Missed my point. Ethics boards. Scientists have that problem handled. 
> -Apparently not, as people are still being forced to take drugs that are proven to kill as well as cure(Chemotherapy for one), high blood pressure/cholesterol medication that can/will kill you if you stop taking it. I know these are medical related fields, but that is because they are the most directly visible targets that have a direct and explicitly communicated effect on human life.-> > 
> 
> Ha! What happened after Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Did we do what the Romans did to the nation of Carthage? Didn't we continue to support and rebuild Vietnam? 
> -Bone up on your history. Rome used to not only rebuild, but improve the cities that they conquered. Not to mention bringing temendous social improvements in the form of civil order, medicines, and technology. In a way, they were the ancient equivalent to the U.S. They even used many of the same tactics. They would wait for a country to beg for protection and then move in troops, for that countries benefit of course, and then conquer their culture from the inside out.-> In fact, the entire notion of rebuilding the nation of your former enemy, is a HUGE paradigm shift from the ancient concept of Total War. It had never been done before. Even up to WWI, the loser always paid the entire cost of the war. 
> 
> You're right: Human nature itself hasn't changed. In that sense, yes, we are no different from the ancients. But the solutions to common human problems we have are drastically different. Hitler's morality, was Spartan morality. 
> 
> In the 70 years since WWII, we've had an unprecedented period of peace in the world compared to ages past. Where did that come from? 
> -
Err... which peace would that be? Gulf War, Iraq, Cold War with all its posturing, Bosnia, Serbia, Africa, Guerilla action in south america, the drug lords of mexico/columbia, -Class, I would like to present a few examples of Matt's Peace and Goodwill of mankind from 1890-present:-"..the full twentieth century, during which approximately 231 million people died in wars and conflict and, in very large numbers,"by human decision."-
By Year/Death Toll-Major Wars-You really need to rethink your position-> Medicine. Not shocking. Hardly a "hard" science. David? -Care to elaborate in another thread? I would LOVE to hear this. .......

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What is the purpose of living? How about, 'to reduce needless suffering. It seems to me to be a worthy purpose.