Knowledge & Illusion (for Romansh) (General)

by romansh , Sunday, February 26, 2012, 01:36 (4655 days ago) @ David Turell
edited by unknown, Sunday, February 26, 2012, 01:58

Well, that depends upon the source of counsciousness. I know, as well as everyone else, that we need a functional brain to support consciousness. I do not think that I am at the mercy of every astrocyte, glial cell or neuron in the brain. 
Here you have the advantage over me David. I'm sure some of the brain parts are more important (have a greater influence) in our brain decision making and consciousness. Yes I can loose a few "brain cells" and still function quite nicely. Let's thank evolutionary redundancy. -But as a doctor you well recognize our brain function (consciousness if you like) is a product of chemistry and can be affected by whole range of chemicals.-Or do you dispute this?-Just as an aside, fMRIs, how do they work? I presume they detect the magnetic resonance of hydrogen atoms (nuclei) and can distinguish the difference between oxygenated and deoxygenated porphorin rings. For some reason Wiki does not give a clear explanation.-> The autonomic system is an area not under discussion. I know how that runs things. The basis of mu questioning is consciousness. I consider it an emergent 'whatever'.
Fair enough, 'emergence' is a non explanation for me anyway.-> I think it functions using the electromagnetic fields and the quantum effects, but I don't know that it tells me what to do. So I tell it what's on my 'mind'
Are you controlling your quantum fields? Certainly not consciously. Ditto for electromagnetic fields.-> As I write I am telling my fingers what to do. I'm not a great typist,and at my age my fingers are a little stiff at times, so I can't be very automatic about it. But there is not a voice in my head telling me what to do. I am telling myself the next step. I recognize that I am not free of the underlying blood flow, the synapses firing, the electro-chemical reactions. They are finite and fixed in the way they work, but that doesn't allow them to control me. -Yes it does seem that way. As we write we seem to be in charge. So there is a part of you manipulating the chemistry that is described and is encompassed by the second law? As a student I found it hard to understand the second law, and yet we can manipulate it unconsciously (or is it consciously)?
 
> I don't see my brain bossing me around, telling me what to think. I am conditioned by my education, my background, my family input when I was younger, my present wife's delightful influence, etc. I am molded by all of that, but I am very aware of how my personality was shaped, what shaping I did. -So what do you mean by you? It is ultimately a very serious question for both the panentheist and those of us who have pantheistic urges. I agree with the molding. But it's not just our wives and what we perceive as past environments. It is also our genetics and the very nature of chemistry and physics.-> I certainly don't buy all the Darwinistic crap that much of the animal instincts have come through to me as a human descendent and I am controlled by them. You probably didn't see our earlier discussions about M.J. Adler and 'The Difference of Man and the Difference It Makes' his seminal book from the 1960's. We are different in kind, not degree. I'm with him. I know Matt isn't.-I don't think Darwin actually thought that. I'm a quarter of the way through Origin ... I let you know.-> Thoughts? I do appreciate your responses.-I don't know if you have read much on the free will debate. Traditionally there have been three pugilists. Libertarians, who deny determinism (cause and effect?), compatibilists who are at home with both determinism and free will. (Hard)Determinists who can't see how we have cause and effect, and free will. And more recently (hard) indeterminists who think a lack of cause and effect (ie quantum phenomena) also deny the possibility of free will.