Epigenetics, revisited (Introduction)

by dhw, Thursday, September 22, 2011, 17:44 (4790 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: We are left with the same old ending to the discussion. 'Something' must be eternal, a first cause. Since energy is all that is, to quote bBella in paraphrase, we must start with a consideration of energy. We are excluding the idea that the initial 'first cause' energy came from nothing. Nothin is a complete void, nothingness. So energy is always eternal, either in the form of this universe or a multiverse. Or it is just pure energy in the form of teleologic energy, purposeful energy. Why should we image a pure energy with no directionality? If we do that, then we have to summon forth a Darwinian mechanism to make that energy evolve into a body of energy with directionality. What would cause that? Pure energy floating around should have no impetus to change. Therefore the energy has a direction and and a purpose. Otherwise we wouldn't be here discussion this. My motto is FIRST CAUSE FOREVER!-I like the alternative you give here of eternal energy "either in the form of this universe or a multiverse", though in view of the big bang theory I would feel more comfortable if we said this universe or earlier universes. The reason why I like it is that it allows us to conceive of primal energy in terms of matter, whereas your "pure energy" suggests something intangible. In that context one might well ask why "pure energy" should evolve into matter, but matter and movement as our first cause already presents us with an infinity of possible combinations. This, I suppose, might be another way of distinguishing between viewpoints. You see primal energy as "pure" ... a non-material consciousness that proceeds to manipulate energy into matter. The atheist may see primal energy as unconscious matter in perpetual motion, with change as its very essence; eventually its infinity of combinations yields the initial mechanism that has given rise to life and evolution. "Pure" conscious energy would, I agree, entail a teleology, but primal energy as ever-changing, unconscious matter would not. To add one more possibility, however, primal energy as matter might also be conscious (BBella's favourite?). Your motto of FIRST CAUSE FOREVER will therefore apply regardless which of these scenarios you choose ... "pure" energy, unconscious matter, conscious matter. So round we go again...