Is dhw Safe??? (Introduction)

by dhw, Monday, August 22, 2011, 15:44 (4842 days ago) @ David Turell

Dhw: If I were dictator of the world, I would give my blessing to those who find comfort and communal pleasure in religion, so long as they did not interfere with the rights of others. But my educational system would be based 100% on love of my fellow humans and all my fellow creatures, and in my view that principle has no need of any God.-DAVID: I certainly agree with you, as far as you go. But you are describing a utopia among humans. -Utopia is of course unattainable, whether mine or Sacks's, and I wrote that human nature would never change. I am simply saying that I see a humanistic approach to education as the best way forward.-DAVID: Your educational system is not enough. Parents have to have proper social values to instill in their children. -Children become parents. Improvements won't come overnight! Evolutionary changes take place over generations, and it will also take time for educational changes to make a mark.-DAVID: In my world all parents would be totally responsible for the actions of their children up to age 21. That is when the immature frontal lobes are generally fully functional, and should be moral. What if, under these considerations, all parents had to serve the same prison time as their underage criminal children?-If all children were controllable by all parents, you might have a case. For me, this is an inverted form of the same vicious injustice apparently meted out by the Lord our God, who visits "the sins of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." Undoubtedly many parents are to blame for the immorality of their children, but do you really believe that ALL U-21s can be controlled? In England, 18 is the age of adulthood, you are legally independent of your parents, you can vote, and you can go and get yourself killed serving in the armed forces. But whatever the cut-off point, are you saying that at X years + 364 days, the child is not responsible for himself or herself, and at X years + 365 days he/she is? And do you really think ALL parents are capable of monitoring ALL the activities, friendships, influences (e.g. at school) of ALL kids? Have you never encountered children from what you considered to be perfectly respectable families who have gone off the rails despite their upbringing? Did your own parents know absolutely everything you got up to before you were 21?-DAVID: I understand that Rabbi Sacks would tout religion. That's natural for him. But the societal standards in the West had totally fallen apart, especially now that we are seeing equal opportunity crime. If there were a religious revival things will improve. Some articles I've read indicate that religious revival is on the way, and I'm delighted. And I'm still a tough love guy.-A religious revival will take just as long and be just as patchy as an educational revival. And I wonder what sort of revival will delight you. There are branches of Islam with extremely tough love moral codes, and there are Christian cults all over Africa, with poor people rejoicing as they hand over their hard-earned pennies to the Mercedes-driving ministers who are duping them. (America has its own share of these, I believe.) Or are you hoping that the Pope will gather more followers, so he can impose his special brand of non-contraceptive morality and ecclesiastical corruption on a world full of AIDS and illegitimacy? Are you hoping for more faith schools, to encourage insularity and intolerance? A religious revival that united people in a universal philosophy of "love-thy-neighbour-whatever-his-beliefs" would be wonderful, of course, but in view of the agenda that goes with every religion, it would probably be even more Utopian than my educational programme with exactly that goal.
 
For Matt: There are some schools over here that have banned competitive sports, which to my mind is crazy. You can have competition without immorality, and you need it if children are to better themselves. I'm all in favour of your scheme to train them to feel sympathy and empathy, and agree with you entirely that those are the emotions that underlie our moral sense. Religion often puts fear of God and adherence to dogma before love of one's fellow creatures, and I can see no merit in that.