Killing the Watchmaker (Origins)

by xeno6696 , Sonoran Desert, Saturday, July 02, 2011, 18:57 (4675 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained

I was looking through some texts looking for something for David when I found this and was reminded of this thread.
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> Reason gives conviction, but rash belief produces only infatuation.
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> It is quite reasonable to believe in things that one neither sees, touches, nor measures, because manifestly the infinite exists, and one can say not only I believe, but I know that an infinity of things exist which are beyond my reach.
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> Knowledge being indefinitely progressive, I can believe that I shall one day know that of which I am now ignorant. I have no doubts in regard to what I know thoroughly; I may doubt my knowledge if I know imperfectly, but I cannot have doubts as to a thing of which I know nothing, since it is impossible for me to formulate them.
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> He who says there is no God, without having defined God in a complete and absolute manner, simply talks nonsense. I wait for his definition, and when he has set this forth after his own fashion, I am certain, beforehand, of being able to say to him, "I agree with you, there is no such God"; but that God is certainly not my God. If he says to me: "Define your God," I should reply, "I will take good care to do nothing of the kind, for a God defined is a God dethroned." 1 Every positive definition is deniable, the Infinite is the undefined. "I believe only in matter,"(http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/levi/phs/phs08.htm)-An interesting idea, lets poke at it a bit. -"...manifestly the infinite exists..."-The only thing we can say with any level of certitude is that the universe is expanding infinitely. It's expanding at 3x the speed of light, but it is also technically finite. Because we know its speed, the size of the universe is a function its speed and shape; it may be an infinite function, but if you study calculus, even infinity has bounds. It can't be further than its boundaries, nor will it retreat to a previous one. It isn't truly infinite. Since the universe is finite, so too is everything within it.-I'd like to know the poster's definition of "infinite" and why he says that he knows it's manifest. -An infinite number of things to know? Relatively speaking, yes. Absolutely? No. There is a finite amount of information in the universe as well. There's more than you can process in one life time... but that's not infinite. So its true that we can't comprehend everything this has more to do with the combination of personal ability, ambition, and time. Society is and has been the solution to that problem--people write down what they know to share it and record it for history. But how long does it take to catch up? To get a PHD in math now, you only reach the year 1950 upon the completion of your Master's degree. After that, you choose a field, and your general education terminates. -There is information we have no access to. On one of the extrasolar planets we've found, what does its sunrise look like? -Is there something in the universe that can't be comprehended? Technically yes. How life started is one of them. To the amount of information we have, we can't truly fathom it. But unanswered questions are only unanswered questions. Does the infinite exist? Is there anything that we can say is infinite? To my comprehension, the answer (so far) is no. With finite matter in a finite universe, all you have is permutations and combinations...-Is there anything that is timeless? I'd cede that my consciousness, when deep in meditation seems to be a never-ending well... but the well will one day dry up, when I leave this life. -Heraclitus reigns. -I've said this before (perhaps not in your presence) but I really want to be able to believe in a God... but I have found no reasonable means to do so. The idea of the poster here is poetically pleasing... but it doesn't withstand scrutiny. -In terms of hard problems... I'm simply happy that thus far I have found an objective non-theological basis for morality.

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\"Why is it, Master, that ascetics fight with ascetics?\"

\"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics.\"