bat wings and cellular intelligence (Introduction)

by David Turell , Thursday, May 15, 2025, 18:11 (6 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Yet to be found. Fossil search is very active, but according to Bechly most important finds have occurred.

dhw: You have kindly updated us on all the new important fossil finds month after month, but in any case, how can anyone possibly know what fossils have not been found???

I’ve repeated this important point because you have simply dropped the subject.

What is found now fills gaps in the current record as Bechly pointed out.

dhw: […] If you can imagine a small degree of autonomy, I still find it hard to understand why you can’t accept the POSSIBILITY of a large degree.

DAVID: There is no autonomy in organismal cells. They follow directions.

dhw: Your usual statement of your beliefs as if they were facts. Once more:

SHAPIRO: Living cells and organisms are cognitive (sentient) entities that act and interact purposefully […] They possess sensory, communication, information-processing and decision making capabilities. […] Cells are built to evolve; they have the ability to alter their hereditary characteristics etc.

dhw: There are plenty of experts in the field who agree with him.

DAVID: Show me.

dhw: Quite apart from predecessors like Margulis, McLintock and Bühler, you recently drew our attention to a book or article with contributions from scientists from different fields, all of whom supported the theory of cellular intelligence. Unfortunately, I didn’t note down the details, but even a very quick trawl of the Internet brings up books on the subject written by Michael Levin, Michael Denton, Patrick McMillen, Thomas R. Verny, William B. Miller. It’s still only a theory, but so is your belief that there is an omnipotent but inefficient God who takes all the decisions.

DAVID: I've read Denton without finding any mention of Shapiro.

dhw: Sorry, my comment above was badly phrased. I only meant that there are plenty of scientists who agree that cells are autonomously intelligent. I find it quite shocking that your ID-ers as well as some current champions of CI seem to ignore Shapiro. But I’ve no idea whether the authors I’ve listed give Shapiro due credit for getting there before them.

You seize on Shapiro since he offers some support for your beloved cell intelligence theory. Shapiro never moved on to test non-bacterial living cells for 'intelligence'. Why? Ran out of time? He did not leave an ongoing research group.