The Human Animal (Animals)

by xeno6696 , Sonoran Desert, Saturday, June 12, 2010, 15:50 (5277 days ago) @ dhw

dhw,-The points you raise here show me that its more of a mixed bag. Using the Hitler example--I know you call it mythical--but it's simply not possible for that many people to all be antisocial. An experiment conducted in the 60's (and redone somewhat recently) where people were ordered to deliver shocks to someone they didn't know has reinforced on multiple occasions that by simply removing accountability for an action, most people don't care. These are random Joe's. The experimenters eventually asked each participant to push the shock into the part clearly labeled as "fatal," and in the 60's experiment, only one person disobeyed. In these experiments, there was no fuhrer who built a complex social framework of obedience; only people who showed up for an experiment. -The experiment was originally conceived to answer exactly this question: How could so many non-antisocial people do the unthinkable? -You want to naturally label the actions of all German citizens as either by pure fear, or by antisocial individuals. This experiment calls into question the motive of fear. Especially since--in Nazi Germany--the entire public was raised in a social framework of Jew Hatred. They were part of a social collective; albeit one that was directly exploiting the social instincts of man for his own ends. In short, it's clearly possible that simply because the onus of the decision to "kill" a test subject was on the guy ordering the job done, that most people don't feel accountable. To me, fear would motivate some, but not all. -How do wars happen? They happen because people inside of one nation or tribal group differentiate themselves from another nation or tribal group. The social nature of humans allows this to happen. Our social instincts lay the groundwork for the most institutionalized and massive kinds of debauchery imaginable--and it all starts (IMO) with accountability. If you remove that, you're the first step towards getting someone to do whatever you want.

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\"Why is it, Master, that ascetics fight with ascetics?\"

\"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics.\"