starting in the wrong place (The atheist delusion)

by dhw, Tuesday, May 27, 2008, 13:53 (6022 days ago) @ Curtis

Hrischuk writes that agnostics can choose to live their lives "in a prudent, conservative fashion whereby they choose to act according to the most pious religion ... this is not what I see. I see agnostics to live like atheists." - The implications of your "Lord Realituf" analogy and the above conclusion, if I have interpreted them correctly, seem to me to be way off balance. Morality and humanitarianism are not the exclusive province of the religious. How do atheists live? Are all atheists the same? Some of the kindest, gentlest people that I know are non-religious, and humanism is far from being a lost cause. On the other hand, I doubt if you will find more pious people than those who are prepared to slaughter others and even themselves in the name of their religion. I hope I've misunderstood you. - Your second point ("I see many people rationalize away why they cannot accept God because this would incur the loss of autonomy") is very pertinent to our discussion. I have tried to cover it in the "brief guide" (see the section on Religion), and I have also tried to cover its converse. In my own case, the implicit loss of autonomy may well be a barrier to belief. On the other hand, part of me hopes that there is a just and loving God, and that there will be life after death when the questions will be answered, loved ones will be reunited etc. This may well be a barrier to atheism. But on yet another hand (sorry if I appear to have more than two hands), I look at the world and at history and at what is supposed to be the Word of God, and I see injustice and suffering everywhere. You are right with your point 10: if there is a God and he is unfair and unjust, it doesn't matter two hoots to him what I think. But it matters to me ... I can only base my beliefs on what I think, regardless of what God might think of me. There is ample evidence for all the arguments: the good, the bad, and the nothing. My thoughts therefore remain divided: it's possible that a creator exists, it's possible that he is just and loving, it's possible that he is unjust and cruel, it's possible that he is indifferent, it's possible that he is no longer there, it's possible that life is a gigantic accident and there is nothing else out there. And herein lies one more factor: the mystery. Whether life came about by accident or by design, you can only gasp at the richness of it all, including its incomprehensibility. But of course gasping doesn't bring you any closer to the truth.