starting in the wrong place (The atheist delusion)

by Curtis , Monday, May 26, 2008, 04:37 (6023 days ago) @ dhw

Thank you for your response. I was quite worried that this site had gone dormant. - Actually, the table, as it was uploaded, is meant to represent what I will call the "web of evidence" for the Christian faith. Each row is one line of evidence, with the whole being more than the parts since there are aspects of mutual strengthening between the arguments. Each row needs to be addressed and much of this has not been done in the pages of these threads that I have read. I thought this table up and have already added a couple of more rows. - I propose we look at the Kalam Cosmological argument post this reply. - I was once an atheist, then agnostic, now Christian, so much of what I am about to say is based on my own life. It is not intended to be a critique of others but an analysis of what I saw in my life, and those like me. - First, let me address the "I can't make up my mind" aspect of agnosticism. Let us assume that you must make up your mind about where to invest your money in the stock market. You must invest it or inflation will eat it up and you will be left with nothing. So how do you go about choosing which stock to invest your money in? I think there are key questions that you start out with and evidence or facts are sought to answer those questions. At some point, alternatives are pruned from the list because they just do not make investment sense in light of the facts. Then those that remain are judged based on their future potential based on a measured uncertainty or risk. Over time, with further pursuit of facts and answers, one of those stocks will achieve a measurable certainty that is below your threshold of fear and you will invest your money in that stock. I submit that this is how one may approach a religion: it is not a faith play but a knowledge play that does require an aspect of faith. The "web of evidence" is intended to provide enough evidence so that there is a very small fear of being wrong. - Secondly, everyone has a religion and it requires faith. Atheism is a religion, just check out the original Humanist Manifesto. Agnosticism is usually "atheism by default" since most agnostics that I know live like atheists instead of living like someone who believes but thinks they might be wrong. The question is "Did you pick your religion or achieve it by default?" I don't mean this as an insult -- it is just an observation that I have made through the years. I just hope that your religion is not by default. - Now, we can get into discussing the evidence. - The first thing that I would like to tackle is that you cannot prove the non-existence of God. If this is true, then there cannot be a true atheist but only agnostics with strong atheistic tendencies. This then sets the stage for the subsequent discussion. - I do not believe you can disprove the existence of God because of the following:
(1) To disprove God's existence I must search all reality for Him: I may begin my search in the room I am in by looking everywhere in the room but God may be in my neighbor's house. I can search the neighbors house but God may be in another city. I can search the other city but He may have moved to a different country. Hey, God may be on Mars so I need to search Mars. Why not another galaxy? So the search moves to another galaxy. 
He may be hiding somewhere
(2) The search must be instantaneous: It may be that God is in the other city. While I move to the other city, God sneaks around me and moves into the city I came from originally. In fact, God could always be following me and I would not find him, even though he exists.
He may move from one spot to another while I am not looking
(3) I must have all knowledge at any time to disprove God. 
(4) But this is Omniscience and Omnipresence. 
(5) I must be God to disprove God.
(6) The argument is self-refuting because to prove God doesn't exit, I must be God.
(7) Therefore, it is not possible to disprove the existence of God. - The Kalam Cosmological Argument does not arrive at the Christian God but it does arrive at a being very close to the Christian God. We can discuss that next, once this item closes out. - My best regards,
Curtis