Information; does it lie at the basis of reality (Introduction)

by dhw, Wednesday, April 03, 2019, 13:05 (1853 days ago) @ David Turell

QUOTE: "Whereas vagueness may be defensible in regard to natural entities conceivably beyond the human ability to apprehend, it is difficult to justify when it comes to a human concept, such as information. We invented the concept, so we either specify clearly what we mean by it or our conceptualization remains too vague to be meaningful. In the latter case, there is literally no sense in attributing primary existence to information.

dhw: I’ve picked out the above quotation, as it mirrors my own thoughts precisely. Information as I define it is nothing but passive facts or details which we extrapolate from what most of us assume are the realities of the world around us. It has no function of its own until it has a user.

DAVID: Generally correct, but consider that the universe is the passive receiver of formative information. Same for the Milky Way, the Earth, and the start of life. All passive, but once life is operational it is an active participant and user. As such, this may be why God found He had to use evolution and not direct creation of humans.

dhw: I don’t know what you mean by “formative information”. According to my definition, the universe contains passive information, and it is living organisms (not life) that use it. If you disagree with my definition above, please give us your own. I have no idea how you manage to connect this discussion with your God’s one and only purpose being to design H. sapiens, and his need to spend 3.5+ billion years designing whale fins, cuttlefish camouflage and weaverbirds’ nests in order to do so. (See Big brain evolution”.)

DAVID: I agree that information is of no use until used actively by some one. By 'formative info' I was referring to God forming the universe with information. God used information during evolution. We know all sorts of information underlies life's processes.

If your God exists, then of course he created and used all the universe’s information that now lies passively awaiting other users. But I cannot see any relevance to your hypothesis that his sole aim was to design H. sapiens and he was unable to do it until he had spent 3.5+ billion years designing anything but H. sapiens.