Epistemology of Design (The limitations of science)

by xeno6696 , Sonoran Desert, Saturday, December 12, 2009, 18:59 (5458 days ago) @ David Turell


> > If it's a universe of n particles, the probability would have to be something like 1/4n, for example's sake. (one divided by four times the number of particles in the universe.) If the probability of life occuring is some number less than n: 1/(n-m) than life is a determined property, and the search for God in biochemistry is over, in my eyes.
> 
> Matt: I'm sorry I just don't follow your reasoning. My only training in statistics in cook-booking formulas for papers and undrstanding T and p values. If all research has concentrated on biochemical molecules (with the standard particles inside) why use numbers of particles. Life came from available molecules and some basic elements. And the universe provided the Earth as a suitable playground for life. We don't need to odds for that initial development. If the whole process was programmed from the beginnning then there is a God hiding out somewhere.-I will try to clean this up a bit. Since the universe can be modeled as bits, I can use Newton's binomial theorem and related analyses to generate my answers.-1. My only real issue is having the ability to claim that "life couldn't come about by chance." Not because I believe in chance, but because I don't believe the system we're studying is understood well enough for anyone to be able to make that claim. -2. My main thrust then, is to show what information would be needed in order to be able to say that "life couldn't come about by chance." This information is "in the bits" of the universe. -Since this is a binomial distribution we can model the probability as a fraction: 1/(2^n) where 'n' is the total number of particles in the universe. -A binomial distribution is that old (x + y )^n you should remember from algebra.-(x + y )^2 algebraically expands to x^2 + 2xy + y^2-x represents particles of one spin, y particles of another. In a universe where the total number of particles is 2, you will have four possible combinations, x^2 represents both particles having the spin 'x,' the middle term represents 2 combinations where the particles will be x and y, and the last term represents both particles having the spin 'y.' Obviously, there is even more computationally that can be discussed here, but I don't know if you've ever been exposed to the terms nCr or nPr. For now, we'll leave it here. -What I'm saying, is that if in this particular (and tiny) universe, the odds of life occurring must be a number smaller than 1/4 before you can begin to claim that "chance" is even a valid argument. This is because that at some point in time, every possible combination of spin is going to be "computed." This is akin to saying "somewhere on earth it's 5:15." -Now, where "life is special" plays in, is if the probability requires more than one universe before it can appear. -Meaning: if our universe is 1/(2^4), and the odds of life occuring are 1/(2(2^4)), the 2 in front of (2^4) means that you'd have to create two universes before your result would be deterministic. 1/(3(2^4)) would be three universes, etc.-Your probability of life appearing in our universe must have a number or "probability limit" (to use one of your previous examples) of that kind of magnitude before chance can even enter the conversation. Before then, life is a deterministic property of the universe with or without a creator God.

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\"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics.\"