Human evolution; sticks and stones (Introduction)

by David Turell , Tuesday, January 16, 2018, 17:32 (2503 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: That has been my point all along. Enlargement precedes new concepts and implementations.

dhw:So now we have the immaterial idea not leading to a brain change, but the implementation tells us that there HAS been a brain change. Doesn’t that mean that the idea came to the unchanged small brain, and enlargement only took place with implementation?

Twist and turn all you want. We see jumps in hominin size and then subsequent advanced artifacts. The small brain cannot know what it hasn't learned to know. The advanced ideas come only with an enlarged more complex brain (cortex) available for the s/s/c to work with.

dhw: According to you, however, it's part of the pattern for ALL species of hominid, hominin, homo to have a "gap", but "logically" sapiens should NOT have had a gap! Confusion reigns supreme.[/i]

DAVID: I don't understand your confusion. Of course sapiens had a gap of 270,000+/- years before massive use of the brain.

dhw: You claimed that “logically” sapiens with his new large brain should have come up with his new concepts straight away, and so you asked why there was a gap of 270,000 years. I pointed out that pre-sapiens had “gaps” of hundreds of thousands of years, and you said that proved there was a pattern, i.e. “gaps” are the norm. In that case, the sapiens “gap” is perfectly logical, so why did you ask me to explain it?

I made the obvious point over and over, that it took time for the sapiens to learn how to use their new larger sized brain/cortex. If previous ideas from smaller less complex brain/cortex forced the enlargement then 'logically' the new brain should have had the ideas right away. But the gaps disprove your 'push' idea about brain size.

DAVID: The soul can only create more complex ideas by working with a more complex brain. The larger more complex brain appears and only then can the soul develop and implement complex ideas. A soul does not come with a preconceived agenda of ideas and concepts. Size first, use second as shown by the artifacts.

dhw: Back to square one. You are now reverting to your earlier claims that thought depends on the complexities of the brain, which is the exact opposite of your dualistic beliefs. And you are also saying that it is the soul that implements the ideas, whereas four days ago it was the brain that implemented the ideas. I have no idea what you are referring to with your “preconceived agenda”. Individual souls (dualistic approach) come up with new ideas – there is no preconceived agenda! Your dualistic theory, as you agreed on Saturday 13 January, was that the immaterial soul produced the ideas, and the material brain implemented them. On Tuesday 16 January, is this what you believe or not?

You sure like square one. A more complex cortex allows the soul to use it to come up with more advanced cocepts and implementations. I've not changed my computer brain/s/s/c approach. Preconceived agenda is from your pull theory to make brains grow their cortex. See comment above.

DAVID: Size first, use second is supported by the timing of artifacts appearance. You want push and I see pull.

dhw: My proposal is that the implementation of the idea expands the brain, and yours is that your God expanded the brain before it implemented the idea. In both cases, the artefacts can only appear once the brain has finished implementing the idea, and so the timing fits in with both hypotheses.

No. With existing comments in a smaller brain there should be no timing gaps in usage of the larger brain.