Human evolution; sticks and stones (Introduction)

by dhw, Tuesday, January 16, 2018, 12:22 (2503 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: That has been my point all along. Enlargement precedes new concepts and implementations.

In the passage you have tried so hard to re-interpret you wrote: “If habilis has an idea for spears, the idea is immaterial. No brain change. Once he learns to knapp flint etc. there is no question his brain has enlarged with all the muscle movement and coordination involved.” You have now told us you meant that implementation (flint-knapping etc.) took place AFTER the brain had enlarged. So now we have the immaterial idea not leading to a brain change, but the implementation tells us that there HAS been a brain change. Doesn’t that mean that the idea came to the unchanged small brain, and enlargement only took place with implementation?

DAVID [referring to the sapiens brain]: What it proves is the new size is not used in any useful way for a gap in time. I think that happened with habilis and erectus also, Evolution builds on repeated patterns.

dhw: So the statement that the new size is not used usefully for a gap in time proves that the new size is not used usefully for a gap in time. When I tell you that pre-sapiens also had “gaps”, you tell me there are repeated patterns in evolution. Yes indeed. Species arrive, hang around for yonks without much progress, and in most cases disappear. According to you, however, it's part of the pattern for ALL species of hominid, hominin, homo to have a "gap", but "logically" sapiens should NOT have had a gap! Confusion reigns supreme.

DAVID: I don't understand your confusion. Of course sapiens had a gap of 270,000=/- years before massive use of the brain.

You claimed that “logically” sapiens with his new large brain should have come up with his new concepts straight away, and so you asked why there was a gap of 270,000 years. I pointed out that pre-sapiens had “gaps” of hundreds of thousands of years, and you said that proved there was a pattern, i.e. “gaps” are the norm. In that case, the sapiens “gap” is perfectly logical, so why did you ask me to explain it?

DAVID: The soul can only create more complex ideas by working with a more complex brain. The larger more complex brain appears and only then can the soul develop and implement complex ideas. A soul does not come with a preconceived agenda of ideas and concepts. Size first, use second as shown by the artifacts.

Back to square one. You are now reverting to your earlier claims that thought depends on the complexities of the brain, which is the exact opposite of your dualistic beliefs. And you are also saying that it is the soul that implements the ideas, whereas four days ago it was the brain that implemented the ideas. I have no idea what you are referring to with your “preconceived agenda”. Individual souls (dualistic approach) come up with new ideas – there is no preconceived agenda! Your dualistic theory, as you agreed on Saturday 13 January, was that the immaterial soul produced the ideas, and the material brain implemented them. On Tuesday 16 January, is this what you believe or not?

DAVID: Size first, use second is supported by the timing of artifacts appearance. You want push and I see pull.

My proposal is that the implementation of the idea expands the brain, and yours is that your God expanded the brain before it implemented the idea. In both cases, the artefacts can only appear once the brain has finished implementing the idea, and so the timing fits in with both hypotheses.