Revisiting convergence (Introduction)

by dhw, Monday, June 22, 2015, 13:00 (3441 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: At what level of evolutionary development do you think minds appear?dhw: I would suggest that a primitive form of mind in the sense of intelligence was present in the very first cells. [...] The next essential evolutionary step was when cells combined, and so rudimentary minds or intelligences began the process of complexification...... inventive intelligence has been at work since the beginning of evolution, and that would be a form of “mind”. It should go without saying - but I will say it all the same - that my answer is neither theistic nor atheistic, since the origin of such “minds” remains an open question.
DAVID: It remains an open question for you. You need to note the point made by Paul Falkowski in his book....-The point quoted has nothing to do with a theistic or atheistic origin of “minds”.-QUOTE: "[Paul Falkowski's] book Life's Engines: How Microbes Made Earth Habitable focuses on one of the most astonishing discoveries of the twentieth century - that our cells are comprised of a series of highly sophisticated “little engines” or nanomachines that carry out life's vital functions. It is a work full of surprises, arguing for example that all of life's most important innovations were in existence by around 3.5 billion years ago [...] How such mind-bending complexity could have evolved at such an early stage, and in such a hostile environment, has forced a fundamental reconsideration of the origins of life itself."-http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2015/jul/09/how-you-consist-trillions-tiny-mac...-DAVID: This book makes the point I make. Our cells autonomously run the machines of our body automatically. Please explain how complexity appeared 3.5 billion years ago to give bacteria the appearance of 'minds'. It requires a planning mind if you believe in cause and effect.-I wonder what evidence he has that important innovations such as sexual organs, brains, eyes, hearts, livers, lungs etc. were already present 3.5 billion years ago. Of course I haven't read the book, but I see nothing here to contradict my argument that intelligence was present in the first cells and grew in complexity with multicellularity. No-one would dispute that our bodies consist of communities of microbes, and I have always agreed that once an innovation is in place, the cells automatically fulfil their role. The inventive intelligence only comes into play when conditions change, leading to adaptation or - through exploitation of new opportunities - innovation. (Otherwise, extinction.) As regards ‘how' complexity appeared, I assume it was through the cooperation of cells, whether it was 3.5 billion years ago or not. And nobody knows how bacteria acquired their ‘minds' (according to many specialists) or the ‘appearance of minds' (according to you), because nobody knows the origin of life/reproduction/the evolutionary mechanism/sentience/ cognition/ consciousness etc. Only if Falkowski goes on to argue that the complexity requires your God's planning can you claim that he makes the same point as you. Even if he does, it remains a matter of speculative interpretation.