Falsifying God? (Agnosticism)

by Balance_Maintained , U.S.A., Monday, December 29, 2014, 10:57 (3617 days ago) @ dhw

TONY: So, let me rephrase this in a slightly different way:
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> Would you discard the elements of the hypothesis that you could not see, or that you could not prove, simply because they haven't been proven yet?
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>DHW: This is a false analogy. Cellular intelligence, as I understand it, is a hypothesis concerning the capabilities of cells to direct their own behaviour through autonomous action and interaction. In respect of the bible, we are asked to believe a collection of stories told by different authors at different times about events which in most cases they could not possibly have witnessed. Some may well have their roots in history, others in fiction. We have no way of knowing, though some certainly stretch my own credulity (see my earlier comment on the story of Adam and Eve.) You assure us that the bible's past record on prophecy is 100%, and so we should take the remainder on trust. Other scholars disagree, but you dismiss them as “fringe”, just as you dismiss certain interpretations of the blood issue and of Deuteronomy, on which I feel confident enough to pass comment.-And this is precisely why it is NOT a false analogy. There are parts of cellular intelligence that you can not ever prove, so you would have to rely on indirect observations. However, the rest of your comment here is very far off base. Archaeology has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt the vast majority of the bible. It has been confirmed and reconfirmed, over and again, with hard, physical, undeniable evidence. Your problem with the Bible is that you still view it as 'fiction' despite the evidence. --> 
> TONY: Now here is a simple question for you. Christ performed miracles in front of thousands, and ascended in front of more than 500 people, most of which were later tortured to death for their beliefs in the most horrifying ways possible. Why would these people knowingly and willingly have gone to their death for something that they KNEW was a lie? If they hadn't seen it, would they have died for the lie? 
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> 
>DHW: The problem is always the same: how much credence can one give to other people's testimony, especially when events happened so long ago? -I find it ironic that you have no trouble taking the testimony of people that were drugged up or dead(or nearly so) as evidence for NDE's, but find the testimony of hundreds of first hand accounts of living people beyond credence.-> 
>DHW: I have done my best to answer your question, though of course my answer is unsatisfactory, because unlike yourself, David, and Richard Dawkins I have great difficulty giving credence to any theory. -Except for those you are already predisposed to believe. After all, nearly all of your hypotheses are centered around evolution which gives a fairly strong indication as to what you actually believe.
 
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> DHW: However, to get back to the subject of this thread, and putting on my theist hat, I still don't see how you can argue that a failed prophecy will falsify the concept of God, rather than falsifying the concept of the bible as the word of God.
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> TONY: I don't claim that, the bible does. Explicitly it states: 
> Deut 18:22 21"You may say in your heart, 'How will we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?' 22"When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.(Also Jer 28:9, Eze 33:33. 
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> dhw: I'm sorry, but this quotation is making precisely the point that I am making: if a prophecy is false, it doesn't falsify the concept of God, but the authenticity of the prophet who makes it. If a failed prophecy is recorded in the bible, it will therefore be the bible's claim to be the word of God that is falsified and not the concept of God.-The statistical chance that Christ (or anyone) could have fulfilled just 8 of the prophecies is 10^27th power. There were hundreds of prophecies regarding Christ, relating to times both during the period the bible was written and for future events. During his lifetime, he fulfilled more than 40 that required no divinity, i.e. things that could be proven by eye witnesses without slight of hand or magic or miracles. Just the non-miraculous prophecies fulfilled in Christ during his lifetime, and verifiable through non-christian third parties like Josephus, are beyond statistically impossible. Statistically impossible yet verifiable by modern archaeology and science.-All total there are more than 1800 prophecies in the bible. That even the tiniest fraction of them, 8, came true would be impossible without a miracle. That 1800 would, that is divine.-If you can see that same statistical impossibility as reason for justifying a disbelief in chance, what makes it unsuitable to recognize the work of something far more powerful(i.e. God)?

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What is the purpose of living? How about, 'to reduce needless suffering. It seems to me to be a worthy purpose.