Falsifying God? (Agnosticism)

by dhw, Monday, December 22, 2014, 14:50 (3624 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained
edited by dhw, Monday, December 22, 2014, 15:22

TONY: I know you don't do a tremendous amount of research regarding biblical prophecy, but as you tell me not to search fringe sites for real scientific research, I would tell you the same regarding bible research. -A case of mistaken identity here. As a non-scientist I would never have told you not to search fringe sites for real scientific research, and frankly I don't know which sites are fringe and which are mainstream. Nor would I know what criteria one might adopt in order to distinguish the “fringe”, especially when it comes to subjects as controversial as religion. However, I really didn't mean to cause you additional work refuting this particular website, though I appreciate the trouble you've gone to. It is clear from your response that certain prophecies “can neither be definitively proven nor disproven yet” (Ezekiel and Egypt, Isaiah and the Nile), and that is a pretty clever way to maintain a 100% record: it might not have happened yet, but it will. Of course that was my point in choosing Revelations.-dhw: Secondly, as we keep saying, the bible is a collection of books written by different authors. If a prophecy proves to be false, it will not falsify the concept of God. It will only falsify the claim of the particular author that God is speaking through him, and the claims of those who believe that the bible is the Word of God. So the concept of God can't be falsified in this way.
TONY: That is what YOU claim, not what the Bible claims. There is a difference. The Bible claims to be the divinely inspired word of god. It either proves that claim, or the whole gig through its 100% accuracy or it falls apart. -You seem to think the Bible exists independently of the people who wrote it. Who claims that the Bible is the word of God? The individual authors may claim it, and the various assemblies of self-appointed editors with their own agendas may have claimed it. And maybe they were all as human and fallible as the rest of us. But your point was that God's existence could be falsified if inaccuracies were found in the Bible, and I am actually defending the theist viewpoint here! I am arguing that inaccuracies would not make a blind bit of difference to the case for God's existence. They would only falsify the claim that the Bible was the Word of God.-dhw: Thirdly, although in my view God's existence can't be falsified by prophecies, it could certainly be proven beyond any doubt: for instance if, as the Bible prophesies, the seven seals really are opened, God's chosen 144,000 male virgins really conquer the “beast”, Satan is imprisoned for a thousand years, God defeats the kings of the Earth, passes his judgement, and the old world is replaced by a new heaven and earth. However, I doubt if I shall be around, even if it happens.

TONY: Yes, but you do realize that part and parcel to that is that if you do survive long enough to see that, which is not as far fetched as you might think, then the realization of God would be to your misery, not your delight.-I do think it's far fetched, but I'm consoled by the fact that as my resident biblical expert, you have assured me there is no such place as hell. In that case, if your interpretation is correct, I shall be condemned to everlasting peace. That's not so terrible.
 
TONY: Just to give some context to this discussion, the bible and its prophecies works remarkably like science. In science, you make a hypothesis which will in turn make predictions. Predictions in science generally come in two flavors, the low hanging fruit that is easily testable and the larger predictions that either have not or can not be tested yet. 
Prophecy works much the same way. Prophecies generally contain what are known as a minor and major fulfillment. The minor fulfillment, like the low hanging fruit in a scientific hypothesis, is generally easily tested and used to provide assurance of the larger fulfillment of the prophecy.-We have spent many hours discussing the various scientific theories that relate to a future or a past that none of us can ever see. Your prophecies do indeed work in much the same way. We might literally have to wait an eternity before we can say, as you do, that God's existence can be falsified through the prophecies.