Review of Spetner's book (Introduction)

by David Turell , Wednesday, November 19, 2014, 20:13 (3656 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: Thank you for reviewing and summarising this book. There are a few things that are not clear to me: 
> DAVID: The Talmud quotes refer to 365 original types of organism which adapted into the current bush of life...
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> dhw: By “original”, does he mean these types were all created at the beginning, or does he think they came into existence over billions of years?-365 types of mammals were created at the beginning and then adapted into what we see today, through his NREH. -> dhw: Does he count humans as “original types” or “adaptations”?-He doesn't say directly but implies original humans were part of the 365 original forms. He refers to 4 eras of creation as described in the Talmud.-> dhw: Does he share your conviction that God's aim in creating life was to create humans?-Since he feels God created everything, I'm sure he fells that way, but doesn't discuss it directly. He does not believe in common descent, but in direct creation
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> DAVID: He thinks all the information needed to adapt is contained in DNA from the beginning... 
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> dhw: You believe that the IM is capable only of minor adaptations, which have been observed even in our own times. The mystery is innovations. Does he/do you think every innovation was contained in DNA from the beginning, or does he/do you believe God created each one individually?-He describes somewhat vaguely his NREH. It does all the adapting after the original forms are created. He specifically says that environmental changes and inputs pushes the NREH to create the variations. Remember he strongly supports Shapiro's work.
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> DAVID: Spetner obviously believes there is an inventive mechanism built into DNA probably from the very beginning. And describes his NREH as such.
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> dhw: An inventive (and not merely adaptive) mechanism present from the very beginning sounds precisely like my idea of a Non Random Evolutionary Hypothesis!-But our argument is at the level of how stringent are the guidelines in an IM/NREH. He doesn't comment. He simply says it HAS to be there and it works, quoting epigenetic evidence now in development, but not present at the time of his first book in which the NREH was presented.
 
> dhw: The balance of Nature has constantly shifted throughout the history of life, and if you think Chicxulub was a natural, unplanned catastrophe, I really don't see how you can imagine that God has planned Nature's balance specially for the sake of humans.-Life stays in balance. No, I cannot link the expectation of humans to the balance, but to maintain life in which energy requirements must be met, life must come back to equilibrium when disrupted, and if we believe the aging techniques are correct, humans began to appear slightly over one million-plus years ago, from a start of life at 3.6-3.8 billion years ago. In neither book does he discuss radioactive dating. How orthodox is his Jewishness is shown by his spelling God: "G-D", a sign of being very, very strict. But his obvious religious views do not detract from is criticisms. -Once again, I must pound on you. His entire first chapter discusses the amount of information that must be present at the beginning of life implanted in the DNA code. Those critical of Darwin present the information argument. I'm briefly in Wagner's book now. He sides with Darwin, and information has no special mention so far, and is not mentioned in the index. This is a huge dichotomy in thought. Information cannot develop from rocks and water, and Darwinists chose to ignore the point, because they appear to have no answer.