Does evolution have a purpose? (Evolution)

by David Turell , Thursday, October 16, 2014, 01:49 (3690 days ago) @ dhw

David. If He was so interested in making a universe that allows life, and creates life, He is not going to give up full control over advances in evolution through speciation. [/i]
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> dhw: Why not? Maybe “what He intends” is a total free-for-all. You are working backwards from your assumption that his aim was to produce humans! Now consider your earlier statement: “I could assume that God invented an inventing mechanism, so He could just sit back and watch.” Stop there, and you have an explanation for the higgledy-piggledy bush, the seemingly random comings and goings, the vast variety of life forms and behaviours. -You are perfectly right that if we assume God has infinite powers, as stated by the Bible, He should be able to invent an IM that can run totally on its own. I am looking for a method that gives us bushiness and humans without pre-programming or dabbling. But that is the reason I use the modifier, semi-autonomous. Both my statements you quoted make sense if we assume that God is jealous of His intent for humans to appear. With a semiautonomous IM which might not necessarily follow a fully pre-programmed path to humans, it allows for bushiness, but with built-in instructions given an ultimate direction, it can wander around to some degree, but still wind up producing humans.
 
> dhw: How do you know what God knows and intends? As I've explained, since what happened was a higgledy-piggledy bush of endlessly varied life forms and modes of behaviour, why should we not assume that this free-for-all was his intention - instead of claiming that he was targeting just one species out of billions? -Because humans are here and like no other life form in the entire bushiness. I'm simply asking a 'why' question. We have animal bodies produced by evolution and enormous brains for no good reason I can see, except a purpose that is Adler's point in his most influential book. I accept that we are different in kind, not degree. Evolution produces changes by degree. We are a different kind. Why would an unorganized chance mechanism like Darwin's theory of evolution do that? With Darwin only chance is available. So you would have to propose humans by chance. The gradual change in the human brain size and complexity happened but in no other line of descent. When we know there are many, many examples of life's inventiveness and convergences, why no convergence in brains? In eyes, yes, and they are extremely complex, so complexity is not much of an issue to thwart brain development. 6-8 million years and stupendous human mental capacities, and the chimps still have their peanut brains.-
> dhw: There is no dilemma of any kind if you accept the autonomy of the IM and the idea that God invented it and then sat back and watched.-I've explained my approach above. It would be nice if the evidence supported the creationist approach of God creating everything directly in six eons, but what we know does not fit. Six eons, yes, very direct evolution, no. And the evidence looks like an evolutionary process. God fooling us, no. God working according to His own way? Yes.
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> dhw: Is it possible that what you “would like to assume” has influenced all your thinking about evolution? This is very much a topic for the thread on “Religion: pros & cons”, which sadly fizzled out just as it was getting interesting. We need input from Tony and/or others, since you and I are sceptical about the texts and the assumptions.-You are right to the point. I was raised on OT Bible stories as a kid, ended up an agnostic, and changed my mind when I studied the science evolving in the 20th Century. Science and theology complement each other, if one steps back and removes the human wishes from theology. Lots of the theology comes from an age of miracles and superstition. We know more now, most natural wonders are explained. We don't need a god of thunder, rainbows are not miracles, etc. But when I see humans as a result of evolution, I see purpose. Purpose and design are soulmates. I see purpose and design everywhere. Everything looks very directed, in my eyes.