Emergence (Evolution)

by dhw, Friday, October 11, 2013, 14:29 (4060 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: We still have no idea how this results in consciousness, let alone self-awareness (which must be distinguished from consciousness)...-DAVID: Here I disagree. Consciousness involves self-awareness at the human level. Animals are conscious but generally not self-aware and therfore do not have the type of consciousness we have.-Dhw: You disagree, and then you proceed to agree. That is why there is so much confusion between us over this issue. When you talk of consciousness, you think in terms of human self-awareness (your 2nd sentence), whereas I am constantly emphasizing that there is a distinction between the two, and that there are different degrees and types of consciousness (your 3rd sentence). You cannot see the dislocation between your two statements, and this is what influences all your thinking on the subject.-DAVID: I still stick to "aware that you are aware" and the following excerpt from a paper I found.-The paper proceeds to list all the things we do with consciousness, some of which apply to cells, ants, dogs, and every organism you can think of, although all of them are clearly geared to human consciousness. Once again, you are doing a Mayweather sidestep. Bearing in mind that 1) restricts consciousness to humans, and 2) acknowledges that there are different types of consciousness, which of your two statements do you now adhere to? 1) "Consciousness involves self-awareness at the human level", or 2) "Animals are conscious but generally not self-aware and therefore do not have the type of consciousness that we have."
 
Dhw: You are reiterating your beliefs, but you can't see the contradiction. If your consciousness and your life emerge from biochemistry, how and in what form do you think your consciousness and your life can survive the death of the chemicals that produce them?
 
DAVID: Simply at a quantum level, in the other level of our reality.-I don't find this simple. In fact, I don't understand it at all. This is the subject I have raised under "Cell Memory".