Ch 16, A mad world (A mad world)

by dhw, Tuesday, December 11, 2012, 21:18 (4367 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: A very recent paper describes changing the expression of zebra fish embryoes so that a fin starts to look like a leg.-http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/12/121210124521.htm-"We found that in the zebrafish, the mouse Hoxd13 control element was capable of driving gene expression in the distal fin rudiment. This result indicates that molecular machinery capable of activating this control element was also present in the last common ancestor of finned and legged animals and is proven by its remnants in zebrafish," says Dr. Casares."-Again ask yourself, where did this pre-planning information come from?-Are you suggesting that God pre-planned every single creature that had or has legs, or are you willing to stand by your earlier agreement that this happened "through the inventive intelligence" of the mechanisms for reproduction, heredity, adaptation and innovation "being brought into play when the environment allowed for such inventions"? You said then that "DNA is coded so complexly and carefully that all sorts of convergences are allowed to be tried". "Allowed to be tried" does not = pre-planning.-DAVID (quoting dhw: "you must accept that this super-self-awareness was not designed but has simply existed forever. Can you believe it?")-You have agreed that something has to be eternal to start all we see and are.-The full quote related to a requirement for believing in God: "And while you are expected to argue that our own self-awareness could only be the product of design, you must accept that this super-self-awareness was not designed but has simply existed forever. Can you believe it?"-The full quote was meant to underline the illogicality of the argument, but yes, I have always agreed that there has to be an eternal first cause. What I am unable to believe is that the first cause is self-aware, or has a low degree of awareness, or has no degree of awareness whatsoever. That is why I am neither a theist nor a panpsychist nor an atheist, but an uncommitted and ignorant agnostic.