Evolution (Evolution)

by dhw, Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 15:28 (5783 days ago) @ George Jelliss

George doesn't think our differences are linguistic. Of course they're much more fundamental (you have definite beliefs and I don't), but language may create differences that are not there. For instance you say that phrases such as "something was responsible", "the force that made us" etc. envisage an intelligence. It is very difficult to avoid such language. In your post of 15 January at 09.18 you wrote "Nature conducts...what I think is called "parallel processing"". And: "There is a sense in which Nature "knows" more than we do". As part of your argument you quoted Hertz, who actually uses the word "intelligence". - There are really two problems that arise from your comment. One is linguistic, and I'm simply looking for a starting-point acceptable to all. How about: "Life is the result of a process caused by an unknown force"? You as an atheist will finish up by saying the force was chance plus the laws of Nature. A theist will finish by saying it was God. An agnostic will say it was a "Dunno". The point of finding such a definition is that we can rid ourselves of all associations and start the inquiry from an area of common ground. At present, you shift from "natural occurrences" to "Acts of God", as if one must choose between one or the other. Similarly, I get the impression (maybe wrongly) that in discussing the paranormal, you feel the alternatives are total dismissal versus belief in God. There are many intermediate stages, and it may well be that by shedding certain linguistic loads we can all go a bit further together before the paths divide. - The second part of the discussion does move us a stage further on. You wrote: "I take the view that what happens just happens. Like an avalanche happens, like a tsunami happens...etc." I take this to mean that once chance has brought about the necessary combination, the laws of nature take over. All the examples you choose ... avalanche, tsunami, hurricane, supernovas, planets ... relate to inorganic matter. Is there no difference in principle between these inorganic processes on the one hand and life, reproduction, organs, senses, consciousness on the other? If there is a difference, what is it?