Logic and evolution: Plantinga project. God is Back? (Introduction)

by dhw, Thursday, December 24, 2020, 09:46 (1220 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: I can accept the argument for a “first cause”, but the rest makes me squirm, even though I am not an atheist. A causeless supreme intelligence is no more likely than a causeless universe of constantly changing matter and energy, in which an eternity and infinity of combinations has eventually thrown together the rudimentary ingredients for life and intelligence. (The big bang theory is irrelevant, since we cannot know what preceded it, if it happened.) […]

DAVID: I didn't comment, because I agree with most of it, and had nothing to add. But the bolded statement makes me comment. The BB is directly estimated at 13.78 bya. The science community in general accepts something started this current universe at that time, and it is not irrelevant.

It is irrelevant because we do not know what preceded it! You say your eternal, thinking, first-cause God preceded it and caused it; I say maybe a first-cause eternal universe of constantly changing matter and energy preceded it and caused it.

Post reply

2849 views

Complete thread:

RSS Feed of thread

Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-06-30, 13:28
- Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-06-30, 18:21
  - Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-01, 12:20
    - Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-01, 18:52
      - Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-02, 11:38
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-02, 15:08
        Logic and evolution - BBella, 2016-07-02, 16:26
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-02, 19:52
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-03, 11:50
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-03, 15:23
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-04, 12:47
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-04, 16:37
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-05, 13:48
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-05, 15:47
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-06, 13:21
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-06, 18:19
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-07, 12:35
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-07, 20:23
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-08, 13:04
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-08, 19:43
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-09, 12:39
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-10, 00:04
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-10, 13:22
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-10, 20:06
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-11, 13:10
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-11, 14:49
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-12, 10:50
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-13, 00:01
        Logic and evolution: a complete species with lost genes - David Turell, 2016-07-13, 02:10
        
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-13, 12:11
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-13, 15:38
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-14, 12:19
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-14, 20:18
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-15, 12:43
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-15, 23:26
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-16, 10:20
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-16, 19:29
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-16, 20:16
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-17, 11:06
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-17, 16:00
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-18, 13:45
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-18, 15:43
        Logic and evolution - BBella, 2016-07-18, 17:10
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-18, 18:01
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-19, 13:02
        Logic and evolution - BBella, 2016-07-19, 21:00
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-20, 12:31
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-20, 14:09
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-21, 13:03
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-21, 16:03
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-22, 10:13
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-22, 15:01
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-23, 10:24
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-23, 14:56
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-24, 18:15
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-24, 19:30
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-25, 22:28
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-26, 01:00
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-26, 11:42
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-26, 15:11
        
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-26, 11:48
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-26, 15:33
        Logic and evolution; an addendum - David Turell, 2016-07-26, 18:35
        Logic and evolution; an addendum - dhw, 2016-07-27, 16:09
        Logic and evolution; an addendum - David Turell, 2016-07-27, 17:39
        Logic and evolution; an addendum - dhw, 2016-07-28, 12:21
        
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-27, 16:03
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-27, 17:24
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-28, 12:16
        
        Logic and evolution - BBella, 2016-07-26, 22:23
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-26, 22:58
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-27, 16:14
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-27, 17:46
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-28, 12:24
        
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-26, 23:23
        
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-20, 00:44
        
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-19, 12:58
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-20, 00:29
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-20, 12:47
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-20, 21:59
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-21, 13:19
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-21, 18:53
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-22, 10:36
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-22, 15:34
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-23, 10:30
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-23, 15:11
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-24, 18:18
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-24, 19:46
        Logic and evolution - dhw, 2016-07-25, 22:39
        Logic and evolution - David Turell, 2016-07-26, 01:33
        Logic and evolution: making vertebrate eyes - David Turell, 2017-02-16, 19:59
        Logic and evolution: a theory in flux - David Turell, 2018-01-17, 17:54
        Logic and evolution: natural selection doesn't exist - David Turell, 2018-01-31, 00:55
        Logic and evolution: natural selection doesn't exist - dhw, 2018-01-31, 14:18
        Logic and evolution: the giraffe problem - David Turell, 2019-01-12, 21:40
        Logic and evolution: the giraffe problem - dhw, 2019-01-13, 14:28
        Logic and evolution: the giraffe problem - David Turell, 2019-01-13, 19:11
        Logic and evolution: the giraffe problem - dhw, 2019-01-14, 12:36
        Logic and evolution: the giraffe problem - David Turell, 2019-01-15, 01:14
        Logic and evolution: the giraffe problem - dhw, 2019-01-15, 15:39
        Logic and evolution: the giraffe problem - David Turell, 2019-01-15, 17:42
        Logic and evolution: the giraffe problem - dhw, 2019-01-16, 13:03
        Logic and evolution: the giraffe problem - David Turell, 2019-01-16, 21:56
        Logic and evolution: the giraffe problem - dhw, 2019-01-17, 12:07
        Logic and evolution: the giraffe problem - David Turell, 2019-01-17, 20:01
        
        Logic and evolution: Darwin theory is not scientific - David Turell, 2019-04-09, 19:49
        Logic and evolution: Darwin theory is not scientific - dhw, 2019-04-10, 13:37
        Logic and evolution: Darwin theory is not scientific - David Turell, 2019-04-10, 16:12
        Logic and evolution: Darwin theory is not scientific - dhw, 2019-04-11, 12:30
        Logic and evolution: Darwin theory is not scientific - David Turell, 2019-04-11, 15:05
        Logic and evolution: Darwin theory is not scientific - dhw, 2019-04-12, 11:17
        Logic and evolution: Darwin theory is not scientific - David Turell, 2019-04-12, 18:17
        Logic and evolution: Darwin theory is not scientific - dhw, 2019-04-13, 11:30
        Logic and evolution: Darwin theory is not scientific - David Turell, 2019-04-13, 21:57
        Logic and evolution: Darwin theory is not scientific - dhw, 2019-04-14, 11:27
        Logic and evolution: Darwin theory is not scientific - David Turell, 2019-04-14, 15:44
        Logic and evolution: Darwin theory is not scientific - dhw, 2019-04-15, 11:39
        Logic and evolution: Darwin theory is not scientific - David Turell, 2019-04-15, 17:41
        Logic and evolution: Darwin theory is not scientific - dhw, 2019-04-16, 14:06
        Logic and evolution: Darwin theory is not scientific - David Turell, 2019-04-16, 17:09
        Logic and evolution: Darwin theory is not scientific - dhw, 2019-04-17, 13:41
        Logic and evolution: Darwin theory is not scientific - David Turell, 2019-04-17, 15:34
        Logic and evolution: Darwin theory is not scientific - dhw, 2019-04-18, 11:37
        Logic and evolution: Darwin theory is not scientific - David Turell, 2019-04-18, 19:10
        Logic and evolution: current Darwin theory debate - David Turell, 2019-05-13, 16:37
        Logic and evolution: current Darwin theory debate - dhw, 2019-05-14, 13:03
        Logic and evolution: current Darwin theory debate - David Turell, 2019-05-14, 14:51
        Logic and evolution: current Darwin theory debate - dhw, 2019-05-15, 13:20
        Logic and evolution: current Darwin theory debate - David Turell, 2019-05-15, 17:59
        Logic and evolution: current Darwin theory debate - dhw, 2019-05-16, 08:26
        Logic and evolution: current Darwin theory debate - David Turell, 2019-05-16, 18:41
        
        Logic and evolution: Darwin theory debate; new Behe support - David Turell, 2020-05-27, 22:43
        Logic and evolution: DARC mutation and malaria lessens - David Turell, 2020-09-23, 15:34
        Logic and evolution: DARC mutation and malaria lessens - dhw, 2020-09-24, 11:36
        Logic and evolution: DARC mutation and malaria lessens - David Turell, 2020-09-24, 15:38
        Logic and evolution: DARC mutation and malaria lessens - dhw, 2020-09-25, 11:31
        Logic and evolution: DARC mutation and malaria lessens - David Turell, 2020-09-25, 13:05
        Logic and evolution: DARC mutation and malaria lessens - dhw, 2020-09-26, 11:27
        Logic and evolution: DARC mutation and malaria lessens - David Turell, 2020-09-26, 19:30
        Logic and evolution: DARC mutation and malaria lessens - dhw, 2020-09-27, 12:07
        Logic and evolution: DARC mutation and malaria lessens - David Turell, 2020-09-27, 16:38
        
        Logic and evolution: the giraffe problem - David Turell, 2021-03-17, 21:57
        
        Logic and evolution: Plantinga tries theistic evolution - David Turell, 2017-01-09, 01:37
        Logic and evolution: Plantinga tries theistic evolution - dhw, 2017-01-09, 12:32
        Logic and evolution: Plantinga tries theistic evolution - David Turell, 2017-01-09, 14:48
        Logic and evolution: doubting Darwin - David Turell, 2019-05-15, 04:54
        Logic and evolution: doubting Darwin; part 2 - David Turell, 2019-05-15, 05:07
        Logic and evolution: doubting Darwin; - David Turell, 2019-09-02, 18:31
        Logic and evolution: doubting Darwin; - dhw, 2019-09-03, 10:04
        Logic and evolution: doubting Darwin; - David Turell, 2019-09-03, 18:04
        Logic and evolution: doubting Darwin; - dhw, 2019-09-04, 10:17
        Logic and evolution: doubting Darwin; - David Turell, 2019-09-04, 18:22
        Logic and evolution: doubting Darwin; - dhw, 2019-09-05, 10:28
        Logic and evolution: doubting Darwin; - David Turell, 2019-09-05, 18:28
        Logic and evolution: doubting Darwin; - dhw, 2019-09-06, 10:43
        Logic and evolution: doubting Darwin; - David Turell, 2019-09-06, 22:38
        Logic and evolution: doubting Darwin; - David Turell, 2020-02-03, 20:34
        Logic and evolution: doubting Darwin; - dhw, 2020-02-04, 11:43
        Logic and evolution: doubting Darwin; - David Turell, 2020-02-05, 01:44
        Logic and evolution: doubting Darwin; - dhw, 2020-02-05, 12:57
        Logic and evolution: doubting Darwin; - David Turell, 2020-02-05, 21:03
        Logic and evolution: doubting Darwin; - dhw, 2020-02-06, 15:16
        Logic and evolution: doubting Darwin; - David Turell, 2020-02-07, 02:18
        
        Logic and evolution: Darwinism misstatements - David Turell, 2019-09-16, 15:37
        Logic and evolution: Darwinism misstatements - dhw, 2019-09-17, 10:00
        Logic and evolution: Darwinism misstatements - David Turell, 2019-09-17, 14:32
        
        Logic and evolution: How speciation might occur - David Turell, 2017-03-24, 13:41
        
        Logic and evolution: Plantinga project. God is Back? - George Jelliss, 2020-12-22, 18:31
        Logic and evolution: Plantinga project. God is Back? - David Turell, 2020-12-22, 19:34
        Logic and evolution: Plantinga project. God is Back? - dhw, 2020-12-23, 11:36
        Logic and evolution: Plantinga project. God is Back? - David Turell, 2020-12-23, 13:04
        Logic and evolution: Plantinga project. God is Back? - dhw, 2020-12-24, 09:46
        Logic and evolution: Plantinga project. God is Back? - George Jelliss, 2020-12-24, 11:34
        Logic and evolution: Plantinga project. God is Back? - dhw, 2020-12-26, 10:44
        Logic and evolution: Plantinga project. God is Back? - David Turell, 2020-12-26, 16:47
        Logic and evolution: Plantinga project. God is Back? - dhw, 2020-12-27, 10:58
        Logic and evolution: Plantinga project. God is Back? - David Turell, 2020-12-27, 14:41
        Logic and evolution: Plantinga project. God is Back? - dhw, 2020-12-28, 08:18
        Logic and evolution: Plantinga project. God is Back? - David Turell, 2020-12-28, 13:21
        Logic and evolution: Plantinga project. God is Back? - dhw, 2020-12-29, 09:04
        Logic and evolution: Plantinga project. God is Back? - David Turell, 2020-12-30, 01:59
        
        Logic and evolution: Plantinga project. God is Back? - David Turell, 2020-12-24, 15:40
        Logic and evolution:Darwin scientists find useless evolution - David Turell, 2021-01-18, 01:25

AgnosticWeb.com

Logic and evolution: Plantinga project. God is Back? (Introduction)