Evolution and human: having proper feet (Evolution)

by dhw, Wednesday, January 27, 2016, 18:31 (665 days ago) @ David Turell

Dhw: So once more, let us clarify. Your hypothesis is giant leaps preprogrammed by your God; my hypothesis is giant leaps engineered by the autonomous inventive intelligence of the organisms themselves. The “compromise” is that this autonomous intelligence may have been invented by your God, which is far, far away from your God preprogramming a layer of DNA with the giant leaps! I remain hopeful that you are indeed prepared to accept the possibility of my hypothesis as phrased by me.

DAVID: No. It is a matter of the size of the 'leap'. I can certainly accept an inventive mechanism at the level of epigenetic variations within a species, but speciation itself with a major variation in phenotype, as I pointed out, I feel is beyond an IM unless that IM is a so-far undiscovered God-given complex layer which controls the giant leap to a new species. I view your proposal as equivalent to the current known abilities of organisms through epigenetics. That method is advancement through small modifications and trial and error stages. The fossil record is not equated with that.

We both know that NOBODY understands what mechanism caused the giant leaps. And we both know that small modifications are possible, and that the mechanism for those is contained within individual organisms. You claim that your God preprogrammed (or personally directed) not only the major leaps but also the lifestyles and natural wonders such as the weaverbird's nest. I understand that you “feel” these developments are beyond the inventive intelligence of individual organisms, because - just as with your own hypothesis - there is no evidence. I repeat: NOBODY knows the mechanism. I am therefore not asking you to believe it, but simply to acknowledge that it is a possible alternative to your own hypothesis, i.e. that “the so-far undiscovered,[possibly] God-given complex layer which controls the giant leap to a new species” will turn out to be the autonomous , inventive intelligence of the organisms themselves.


Under "Dad's epigenetic contributions" you repeat yet again that current research only shows "minor adaptations, nothing that supports a road to speciation." Of course that's what it shows! If it explained innovations, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Does current research support the hypothesis that God preprogrammed the first cells with every single large leap and weird lifestyle and natural wonder? That's why I keep emphasizing that NOBODY knows, and all we have at the moment are hypotheses. And I'm afraid you and I are unlikely to see the day when there is anything more than that!

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