Back to brain expansion (Humans)

by dhw, Thursday, October 22, 2020, 12:18 (40 days ago)

QUOTES: (under “Human evolution”) ………early humans at Olorgesailie relied on the same tools, stone handaxes, for 700,000 years. Their way of life during this period was remarkably stable, with no major changes in their behaviors and strategies for survival.

This is what we call "stasis".

Then, beginning around 320,000 years ago, people living there entered the Middle Stone Age, crafting smaller, more sophisticated weapons, including projectiles. At the same time, they began to trade resources with distant groups and to use coloring materials, suggesting symbolic communication. All these changes were a significant departure from their previous lifestyle, likely helping early humans cope with their newly variable landscape, Potts said.
***
The new analysis reveals how a changing climate along with new land faults introduced by tectonic activity and ecological disruptions in the vegetation and fauna all came together to drive disruptions that made technological innovation, trading resources and symbolic communication¬—three key factors in adaptability—beneficial for early humans in this region.

"'TThen with humans in the mix, and some of their innovations like projectile weapons, they also may have affected the fauna. It's a whole ecosystem changing, with humans as part of it.'"

DAVID: With big-brained H. sapiens dated at 315,000 years ago in Morocco the ability to adapt had to be improved. Darwinists, like the authors, assume it is all adaptability changes, but the appearance of the big brain was undoubtedly was the main factor in human response and inventiveness.

Wikipedia: The emergence of these behaviors, it is observed by the authors of three 2018 studies on the site, approximately corresponds to the earliest known Homo sapiens fossil remains from Africa (such as at Jebel Irhoud, Morocco and Florisbad, South Africa) dated to about the same period, and it is suggested that complex behaviors began in Africa around the time of the emergence of Homo sapiens

This is a brand new contribution to our discussion on brain expansion. My proposal has always been that brain expansion was triggered by new requirements which demanded extra cells. Previously you have harped on the fact that there was no evidence of new requirements. Here you have a whole list of them, all occurring at the same time as the known expansion of the brain. Your proposal is that your God expanded the brain in anticipation of the changes listed above. Mine is that the brain expanded in response to these requirements. Nothing proved, of course, but this article removes your main objection to my theory. Many thanks for drawing our attention to it.

Back to brain expansion

by David Turell @, Thursday, October 22, 2020, 19:20 (40 days ago) @ dhw

QUOTES: (under “Human evolution”) ………early humans at Olorgesailie relied on the same tools, stone handaxes, for 700,000 years. Their way of life during this period was remarkably stable, with no major changes in their behaviors and strategies for survival.

dhw: This is what we call "stasis".

QUOTES: Then, beginning around 320,000 years ago, people living there entered the Middle Stone Age, crafting smaller, more sophisticated weapons, including projectiles. At the same time, they began to trade resources with distant groups and to use coloring materials, suggesting symbolic communication. All these changes were a significant departure from their previous lifestyle, likely helping early humans cope with their newly variable landscape, Potts said.

***

The new analysis reveals how a changing climate along with new land faults introduced by tectonic activity and ecological disruptions in the vegetation and fauna all came together to drive disruptions that made technological innovation, trading resources and symbolic communication¬—three key factors in adaptability—beneficial for early humans in this region.

"'TThen with humans in the mix, and some of their innovations like projectile weapons, they also may have affected the fauna. It's a whole ecosystem changing, with humans as part of it.'"

DAVID: With big-brained H. sapiens dated at 315,000 years ago in Morocco the ability to adapt had to be improved. Darwinists, like the authors, assume it is all adaptability changes, but the appearance of the big brain was undoubtedly was the main factor in human response and inventiveness.

Wikipedia: The emergence of these behaviors, it is observed by the authors of three 2018 studies on the site, approximately corresponds to the earliest known Homo sapiens fossil remains from Africa (such as at Jebel Irhoud, Morocco and Florisbad, South Africa) dated to about the same period, and it is suggested that complex behaviors began in Africa around the time of the emergence of Homo sapiens

dhw: This is a brand new contribution to our discussion on brain expansion. My proposal has always been that brain expansion was triggered by new requirements which demanded extra cells. Previously you have harped on the fact that there was no evidence of new requirements. Here you have a whole list of them, all occurring at the same time as the known expansion of the brain. Your proposal is that your God expanded the brain in anticipation of the changes listed above. Mine is that the brain expanded in response to these requirements. Nothing proved, of course, but this article removes your main objection to my theory. Many thanks for drawing our attention to it.

You are using the Darwinian interpretations in the articles. Naturally they would say the environmental changes provoked the larger brain. The bold of 320,000 years ago marks a beginning, not an exact driving force, of new products, just at the exact time H sapiens new big brain suddenly appeared according to our fossil record at this time. I'll stick with God as speciating the big brain..

Back to brain expansion

by dhw, Friday, October 23, 2020, 08:09 (39 days ago) @ David Turell

QUOTES: The new analysis reveals how a changing climate along with new land faults introduced by tectonic activity and ecological disruptions in the vegetation and fauna all came together to drive disruptions that made technological innovation, trading resources and symbolic communication¬—three key factors in adaptability—beneficial for early humans in this region.

"'Then with humans in the mix, and some of their innovations like projectile weapons, they also may have affected the fauna. It's a whole ecosystem changing, with humans as part of it.'"

DAVID: With big-brained H. sapiens dated at 315,000 years ago in Morocco the ability to adapt had to be improved. Darwinists, like the authors, assume it is all adaptability changes, but the appearance of the big brain was undoubtedly was the main factor in human response and inventiveness.

Wikipedia: The emergence of these behaviors, it is observed by the authors of three 2018 studies on the site, approximately corresponds to the earliest known Homo sapiens fossil remains from Africa (such as at Jebel Irhoud, Morocco and Florisbad, South Africa) dated to about the same period, and it is suggested that complex behaviors began in Africa around the time of the emergence of Homo sapiens

dhw: This is a brand new contribution to our discussion on brain expansion. My proposal has always been that brain expansion was triggered by new requirements which demanded extra cells. Previously you have harped on the fact that there was no evidence of new requirements. Here you have a whole list of them, all occurring at the same time as the known expansion of the brain. Your proposal is that your God expanded the brain in anticipation of the changes listed above. Mine is that the brain expanded in response to these requirements. Nothing proved, of course, but this article removes your main objection to my theory. Many thanks for drawing our attention to it.

DAVID: You are using the Darwinian interpretations in the articles. Naturally they would say the environmental changes provoked the larger brain. The bold of 320,000 years ago marks a beginning, not an exact driving force, of new products, just at the exact time H sapiens new big brain suddenly appeared according to our fossil record at this time. I'll stick with God as speciating the big brain.

You had told us there were no new requirements to justify my proposal that the effort to meet new requirements caused brain expansion. Now we learn that there were multiple new requirements. We needn’t go over the rest of the discussion. I am simply pointing out that your major objection to my theory has been removed.

Back to brain expansion

by David Turell @, Friday, October 23, 2020, 18:21 (39 days ago) @ dhw

QUOTES: The new analysis reveals how a changing climate along with new land faults introduced by tectonic activity and ecological disruptions in the vegetation and fauna all came together to drive disruptions that made technological innovation, trading resources and symbolic communication¬—three key factors in adaptability—beneficial for early humans in this region.

"'Then with humans in the mix, and some of their innovations like projectile weapons, they also may have affected the fauna. It's a whole ecosystem changing, with humans as part of it.'"

DAVID: With big-brained H. sapiens dated at 315,000 years ago in Morocco the ability to adapt had to be improved. Darwinists, like the authors, assume it is all adaptability changes, but the appearance of the big brain was undoubtedly was the main factor in human response and inventiveness.

Wikipedia: The emergence of these behaviors, it is observed by the authors of three 2018 studies on the site, approximately corresponds to the earliest known Homo sapiens fossil remains from Africa (such as at Jebel Irhoud, Morocco and Florisbad, South Africa) dated to about the same period, and it is suggested that complex behaviors began in Africa around the time of the emergence of Homo sapiens

dhw: This is a brand new contribution to our discussion on brain expansion. My proposal has always been that brain expansion was triggered by new requirements which demanded extra cells. Previously you have harped on the fact that there was no evidence of new requirements. Here you have a whole list of them, all occurring at the same time as the known expansion of the brain. Your proposal is that your God expanded the brain in anticipation of the changes listed above. Mine is that the brain expanded in response to these requirements. Nothing proved, of course, but this article removes your main objection to my theory. Many thanks for drawing our attention to it.

DAVID: You are using the Darwinian interpretations in the articles. Naturally they would say the environmental changes provoked the larger brain. The bold of 320,000 years ago marks a beginning, not an exact driving force, of new products, just at the exact time H sapiens new big brain suddenly appeared according to our fossil record at this time. I'll stick with God as speciating the big brain.

dhw: You had told us there were no new requirements to justify my proposal that the effort to meet new requirements caused brain expansion. Now we learn that there were multiple new requirements. We needn’t go over the rest of the discussion. I am simply pointing out that your major objection to my theory has been removed.

Not removed. The timing of events and brain expansion is not clear. A chicken and egg problem. The timing sim ply shows the Big Brain is strictly related to the new events. I view the responses by sapiens as a result of better thinking capacity. God drives evolution not nature.

Note yesterday's entry: "erectus made barbed bone points (Introduction)
by David Turell @, Thursday, October 22, 2020, 23:11". Erectus could think to the level their brain allowed. What appears as new depends on the level of the model of brain available for use.

Back to brain expansion

by dhw, Saturday, October 24, 2020, 09:18 (38 days ago) @ David Turell

QUOTES: The new analysis reveals how a changing climate along with new land faults introduced by tectonic activity and ecological disruptions in the vegetation and fauna all came together to drive disruptions that made technological innovation, trading resources and symbolic communication¬—three key factors in adaptability—beneficial for early humans in this region.[/b]

"'Then with humans in the mix, and some of their innovations like projectile weapons, they also may have affected the fauna. It's a whole ecosystem changing, with humans as part of it.'"
[…]
dhw: This is a brand new contribution to our discussion on brain expansion. My proposal has always been that brain expansion was triggered by new requirements which demanded extra cells. Previously you have harped on the fact that there was no evidence of new requirements. Here you have a whole list of them, all occurring at the same time as the known expansion of the brain. Your proposal is that your God expanded the brain in anticipation of the changes listed above. Mine is that the brain expanded in response to these requirements. Nothing proved, of course, but this article removes your main objection to my theory. Many thanks for drawing our attention to it.

DAVID: You are using the Darwinian interpretations in the articles. Naturally they would say the environmental changes provoked the larger brain. The bold of 320,000 years ago marks a beginning, not an exact driving force, of new products, just at the exact time H sapiens new big brain suddenly appeared according to our fossil record at this time. I'll stick with God as speciating the big brain.

dhw: You had told us there were no new requirements to justify my proposal that the effort to meet new requirements caused brain expansion. Now we learn that there were multiple new requirements. We needn’t go over the rest of the discussion. I am simply pointing out that your major objection to my theory has been removed.

DAVID: Not removed. The timing of events and brain expansion is not clear. A chicken and egg problem. The timing simply shows the Big Brain is strictly related to the new events. I view the responses by sapiens as a result of better thinking capacity. God drives evolution not nature.

Yes, we’ve been over all that. But your main objection to my argument that meeting new requirements triggered the expansion of the brain was that we did not know of any new requirements that took place when our brains expanded to their present size. Apparently there were lots of new requirements, and although that does not change your belief that God expanded brains in anticipation of them, it does remove your main objection to my own proposal.

DAVID: Note yesterday's entry: "erectus made barbed bone points (Introduction)
by David Turell @, Thursday, October 22, 2020, 23:11". Erectus could think to the level their brain allowed. What appears as new depends on the level of the model of brain available for use.

That is your theory. Mine is that the brain expands when it does not have the capacity to meet new requirements. We really don’t need to go over all that again. The article shows that you can no longer use absence of new requirements as an objection to my proposal.

Back to brain expansion

by David Turell @, Saturday, October 24, 2020, 18:47 (38 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: You are using the Darwinian interpretations in the articles. Naturally they would say the environmental changes provoked the larger brain. The bold of 320,000 years ago marks a beginning, not an exact driving force, of new products, just at the exact time H sapiens new big brain suddenly appeared according to our fossil record at this time. I'll stick with God as speciating the big brain.

dhw: You had told us there were no new requirements to justify my proposal that the effort to meet new requirements caused brain expansion. Now we learn that there were multiple new requirements. We needn’t go over the rest of the discussion. I am simply pointing out that your major objection to my theory has been removed.

DAVID: Not removed. The timing of events and brain expansion is not clear. A chicken and egg problem. The timing simply shows the Big Brain is strictly related to the new events. I view the responses by sapiens as a result of better thinking capacity. God drives evolution not nature.

dhw: Yes, we’ve been over all that. But your main objection to my argument that meeting new requirements triggered the expansion of the brain was that we did not know of any new requirements that took place when our brains expanded to their present size. Apparently there were lots of new requirements, and although that does not change your belief that God expanded brains in anticipation of them, it does remove your main objection to my own proposal.

There are always changing conditions. Forcing changes is pure Darwinism I don't accept. Apes did continue to live under each new change and are still apes. Doesn't explain why we were so unusually changed.


DAVID: Note yesterday's entry: "erectus made barbed bone points (Introduction)
by David Turell @, Thursday, October 22, 2020, 23:11". Erectus could think to the level their brain allowed. What appears as new depends on the level of the model of brain available for use.

dhw: That is your theory. Mine is that the brain expands when it does not have the capacity to meet new requirements. We really don’t need to go over all that again. The article shows that you can no longer use absence of new requirements as an objection to my proposal.

I've presented my same objections to your Darwin theory. The changes you ae trying to use are not artifacts!!! New artifacts require new better minds.

Back to brain expansion: Mayan inventiveness

by David Turell @, Saturday, October 24, 2020, 19:04 (38 days ago) @ David Turell

A great water filtration system found:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201022151741.htm

"Ancient Maya in the once-bustling city of Tikal built sophisticated water filters using natural materials they imported from miles away, according to new research. A multidisciplinary team of anthropologists, geographers and biologists identified quartz and zeolite, a crystalline compound consisting of silicon and aluminum, that created a natural molecular sieve. Both minerals are used in modern water filtration.

***

"A multidisciplinary team of UC anthropologists, geographers and biologists identified crystalline quartz and zeolite imported miles from the city. The quartz found in the coarse sand along with zeolite, a crystalline compound consisting of silicon and aluminum, create a natural molecular sieve. Both minerals are used in modern water filtration.

"The filters would have removed harmful microbes, nitrogen-rich compounds, heavy metals such as mercury and other toxins from the water, said Kenneth Barnett Tankersley, associate professor of anthropology and lead author of the study.

"'What's interesting is this system would still be effective today and the Maya discovered it more than 2,000 years ago," Tankersley said.

***

"The Maya created this water filtration system nearly 2,000 years before similar systems were used in Europe, making it one of the oldest water treatment systems of its kind in the world, Tankersley said.

"Researchers from UC's College of Arts and Sciences traced the zeolite and quartz to steep ridges around the Bajo de Azúcar about 18 miles northeast of Tikal. They used X-ray diffraction analysis to identify zeolite and crystalline quartz in the reservoir sediments.

"At Tikal, zeolite was found exclusively in the Corriental reservoir.

***

"'It was probably through very clever empirical observation that the ancient Maya saw this particular material was associated with clean water and made some effort to carry it back," Dunning said."

Comment: Stone-age sapiens could think with their big brain, no matter where they were and in what climate they lived. Europe and China were not always first.

Back to brain expansion

by dhw, Sunday, October 25, 2020, 13:31 (37 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: You are using the Darwinian interpretations in the articles. Naturally they would say the environmental changes provoked the larger brain. The bold of 320,000 years ago marks a beginning, not an exact driving force, of new products, just at the exact time H sapiens new big brain suddenly appeared according to our fossil record at this time. I'll stick with God as speciating the big brain.

dhw: You had told us there were no new requirements to justify my proposal that the effort to meet new requirements caused brain expansion. Now we learn that there were multiple new requirements. We needn’t go over the rest of the discussion. I am simply pointing out that your major objection to my theory has been removed.

DAVID: Not removed. The timing of events and brain expansion is not clear. A chicken and egg problem. The timing simply shows the Big Brain is strictly related to the new events. I view the responses by sapiens as a result of better thinking capacity. God drives evolution not nature.

dhw: Yes, we’ve been over all that. But your main objection to my argument that meeting new requirements triggered the expansion of the brain was that we did not know of any new requirements that took place when our brains expanded to their present size. Apparently there were lots of new requirements, and although that does not change your belief that God expanded brains in anticipation of them, it does remove your main objection to my own proposal.

DAVID: There are always changing conditions. Forcing changes is pure Darwinism I don't accept. Apes did continue to live under each new change and are still apes. Doesn't explain why we were so unusually changed.

Yes, yes, we’ve been through all that. I proposed that brains expanded when they no longer had enough cells to meet new requirements, whereupon you told us that there were new artefacts found among Moroccan fossils from 315,000, and there were no known new requirements. We now know that in different parts of Africa there WERE new artefacts and new requirements. That’s it. That is the only new development here. We don’t need to go through all the pros and cons of your theory and mine. This particular objection of yours has been squashed by the new discoveries, but you will continue to argue that God operated on the brains in anticipation of new requirements, and I will continue to propose that the brain expanded because of the effort to meet new requirements. We do not need to repeat the rest of the discussion, which has been covered over and over again over the last few months.

X
QUOTE: "'It was probably through very clever empirical observation that the ancient Maya saw this particular material was associated with clean water and made some effort to carry it back," Dunning said."

DAVID: Stone-age sapiens could think with their big brain, no matter where they were and in what climate they lived. Europe and China were not always first.

Agreed. Just to set the record straight: No one could possibly argue that once sapiens had his big brain, he was able to meet all sorts of new requirements, whether of his own making or forced upon him. The brain stopped expanding and complexified instead. The controversy is limited to what caused the expansion in the first place.

Back to brain expansion

by David Turell @, Sunday, October 25, 2020, 19:02 (37 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: You are using the Darwinian interpretations in the articles. Naturally they would say the environmental changes provoked the larger brain. The bold of 320,000 years ago marks a beginning, not an exact driving force, of new products, just at the exact time H sapiens new big brain suddenly appeared according to our fossil record at this time. I'll stick with God as speciating the big brain.

dhw: You had told us there were no new requirements to justify my proposal that the effort to meet new requirements caused brain expansion. Now we learn that there were multiple new requirements. We needn’t go over the rest of the discussion. I am simply pointing out that your major objection to my theory has been removed.

DAVID: Not removed. The timing of events and brain expansion is not clear. A chicken and egg problem. The timing simply shows the Big Brain is strictly related to the new events. I view the responses by sapiens as a result of better thinking capacity. God drives evolution not nature.

dhw: Yes, we’ve been over all that. But your main objection to my argument that meeting new requirements triggered the expansion of the brain was that we did not know of any new requirements that took place when our brains expanded to their present size. Apparently there were lots of new requirements, and although that does not change your belief that God expanded brains in anticipation of them, it does remove your main objection to my own proposal.

DAVID: There are always changing conditions. Forcing changes is pure Darwinism I don't accept. Apes did continue to live under each new change and are still apes. Doesn't explain why we were so unusually changed.

Yes, yes, we’ve been through all that. I proposed that brains expanded when they no longer had enough cells to meet new requirements, whereupon you told us that there were new artefacts found among Moroccan fossils from 315,000, and there were no known new requirements. We now know that in different parts of Africa there WERE new artefacts and new requirements. That’s it. That is the only new development here. We don’t need to go through all the pros and cons of your theory and mine. This particular objection of yours has been squashed by the new discoveries, but you will continue to argue that God operated on the brains in anticipation of new requirements, and I will continue to propose that the brain expanded because of the effort to meet new requirements. We do not need to repeat the rest of the discussion, which has been covered over and over again over the last few months.

You have invented artifacts when the article discussed environmental changes as driving the enlargement.

X
QUOTE: "'It was probably through very clever empirical observation that the ancient Maya saw this particular material was associated with clean water and made some effort to carry it back," Dunning said."

DAVID: Stone-age sapiens could think with their big brain, no matter where they were and in what climate they lived. Europe and China were not always first.

dhw: Agreed. Just to set the record straight: No one could possibly argue that once sapiens had his big brain, he was able to meet all sorts of new requirements, whether of his own making or forced upon him. The brain stopped expanding and complexified instead. The controversy is limited to what caused the expansion in the first place.

Agreed.

Back to brain expansion

by dhw, Monday, October 26, 2020, 11:11 (36 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: I proposed that brains expanded when they no longer had enough cells to meet new requirements, whereupon you told us that there were new artefacts found among Moroccan fossils from 315,000, and there were no known new requirements. We now know that in different parts of Africa there WERE new artefacts and new requirements. That’s it. That is the only new development here. We don’t need to go through all the pros and cons of your theory and mine. This particular objection of yours has been squashed by the new discoveries, but you will continue to argue that God operated on the brains in anticipation of new requirements, and I will continue to propose that the brain expanded because of the effort to meet new requirements. We do not need to repeat the rest of the discussion, which has been covered over and over again over the last few months.

DAVID: You have invented artifacts when the article discussed environmental changes as driving the enlargement.

My theory concerns new requirements, of which artefacts are one example. However, in this particular case, artefacts were also found. You should read these articles more carefully.

QUOTE: Then, beginning around 320,000 years ago, people living there entered the Middle Stone Age, crafting smaller, more sophisticated weapons, including projectiles. At the same time, they began to trade resources with distant groups and to use coloring materials, suggesting symbolic communication. All these changes were a significant departure from their previous lifestyle, likely helping early humans cope with their newly variable landscape, Potts said.
***
"'Then with humans in the mix, and some of their innovations like projectile weapons, they also may have affected the fauna. It's a whole ecosystem changing, with humans as part of it.'"

I think we can now close this thread.

!!!

by David Turell @, Monday, October 26, 2020, 22:41 (36 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: I proposed that brains expanded when they no longer had enough cells to meet new requirements, whereupon you told us that there were new artefacts found among Moroccan fossils from 315,000, and there were no known new requirements. We now know that in different parts of Africa there WERE new artefacts and new requirements. That’s it. That is the only new development here. We don’t need to go through all the pros and cons of your theory and mine. This particular objection of yours has been squashed by the new discoveries, but you will continue to argue that God operated on the brains in anticipation of new requirements, and I will continue to propose that the brain expanded because of the effort to meet new requirements. We do not need to repeat the rest of the discussion, which has been covered over and over again over the last few months.

DAVID: You have invented artifacts when the article discussed environmental changes as driving the enlargement.

My theory concerns new requirements, of which artefacts are one example. However, in this particular case, artefacts were also found. You should read these articles more carefully.

QUOTE: Then, beginning around 320,000 years ago, people living there entered the Middle Stone Age, crafting smaller, more sophisticated weapons, including projectiles. At the same time, they began to trade resources with distant groups and to use coloring materials, suggesting symbolic communication. All these changes were a significant departure from their previous lifestyle, likely helping early humans cope with their newly variable landscape, Potts said.
***
"'Then with humans in the mix, and some of their innovations like projectile weapons, they also may have affected the fauna. It's a whole ecosystem changing, with humans as part of it.'"

dhw: I think we can now close this thread.

Not yet, you are quoting items I knew about, but recognize the Darwin loyalist view sticks them in with no relationship as to timing of brain size and tool appearance. Remember the erectus barbed spear point? Tools pop up in the record with all sorts of brain complexities.

I still will make the same comments I did for the article itself:

https://phys.org/news/2020-10-turbulent-era-human-behavior-years.html

David: Comment: With big-brained H. sapiens dated at 315,000 years ago in Morocco the ability to adapt had to be improved. Darwinists, like the authors, assume it is all adaptability changes, but the appearance of the big brain was undoubtedly was the main factor in human response and inventiveness.

You sucked out a part you wanted out of context and ignored the main points:

While some scientists have proposed that climate fluctuations alone may have driven humans to evolve this remarkable quality of adaptability, the new study indicates the picture is more complicated than that. Instead, the team's analysis shows that climate variability is but one of several intertwined environmental factors that drove the cultural shift they described in 2018. The new analysis reveals how a changing climate along with new land faults introduced by tectonic activity and ecological disruptions in the vegetation and fauna all came together to drive disruptions that made technological innovation, trading resources and symbolic communication¬—three key factors in adaptability—beneficial for early humans in this region.

***

"They found that after a long period of stability, the environment in this part of Africa became more variable around 400,000 years ago, when tectonic activity fragmented the landscape. By integrating information from the drill core with knowledge gleaned from fossils and archeological artifacts, they determined that the entire ecosystem evolved in response.

***

"With the fluctuations, a broader set of ecological changes also took place. The team found that vegetation in the region also changed repeatedly, shifting between grassy plains and wooded areas. Meanwhile, large grazing herbivores, which no longer had large tracts of grass to feed on, began to die out and were replaced by smaller mammals with more diverse diets.

"'There was a massive change in the animal fauna during the time period when we see early human behavior changing," Potts said. "The animals also influenced the landscape through the kinds of plants that they ate. Then with humans in the mix, and some of their innovations like projectile weapons, they also may have affected the fauna. It's a whole ecosystem changing, with humans as part of it.'"

Second comment: Yes all these changes, but they do not mention how that made a big brain or when that occurred in relation to all that was happening! It is pure Darwinism with environment making humans change.

Back to brain expansion

by dhw, Tuesday, October 27, 2020, 09:22 (35 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: You have invented artifacts when the article discussed environmental changes as driving the enlargement.

dhw: My theory concerns new requirements, of which artefacts are one example. However, in this particular case, artefacts were also found. You should read these articles more carefully.

QUOTE: Then, beginning around 320,000 years ago, people living there entered the Middle Stone Age, crafting smaller, more sophisticated weapons, including projectiles. At the same time, they began to trade resources with distant groups and to use coloring materials, suggesting symbolic communication. All these changes were a significant departure from their previous lifestyle, likely helping early humans cope with their newly variable landscape, Potts said.
***
"'Then with humans in the mix, and some of their innovations like projectile weapons, they also may have affected the fauna. It's a whole ecosystem changing, with humans as part of it.'"

dhw: I think we can now close this thread.

DAVID: Not yet, you are quoting items I knew about…
(You said there was no mention of them)
but recognize the Darwin loyalist view sticks them in with no relationship as to timing of brain size and tool appearance. Remember the erectus barbed spear point? Tools pop up in the record with all sorts of brain complexities.

You then go on to quote the whole article, which includes all the environmental changes as well as the artefacts as the new requirements that existed at the time when the brain is known to have expanded.

DAVID: Yes all these changes, but they do not mention how that made a big brain or when that occurred in relation to all that was happening! It is pure Darwinism with environment making humans change.

They have given us a list of new requirements, including artefacts. You say your God expanded the brain in anticipation of the artefacts and environmental changes, and I propose that it expanded as a result of trying to meet the new requirements. We are simply going over old ground – presumably in order to cover the fact that your principal objection to my theory was that there were NO new requirements at the time, whereas we now know that there WERE new requirements. There really is no need to drag this out. We each know the other’s theory, but one of your objections to mine has proved to be wrong. That’s it.

Back to brain expansion

by David Turell @, Tuesday, October 27, 2020, 18:23 (35 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: You have invented artifacts when the article discussed environmental changes as driving the enlargement.

dhw: My theory concerns new requirements, of which artefacts are one example. However, in this particular case, artefacts were also found. You should read these articles more carefully.

QUOTE: Then, beginning around 320,000 years ago, people living there entered the Middle Stone Age, crafting smaller, more sophisticated weapons, including projectiles. At the same time, they began to trade resources with distant groups and to use coloring materials, suggesting symbolic communication. All these changes were a significant departure from their previous lifestyle, likely helping early humans cope with their newly variable landscape, Potts said.
***
"'Then with humans in the mix, and some of their innovations like projectile weapons, they also may have affected the fauna. It's a whole ecosystem changing, with humans as part of it.'"

dhw: I think we can now close this thread.

DAVID: Not yet, you are quoting items I knew about…
(You said there was no mention of them)
but recognize the Darwin loyalist view sticks them in with no relationship as to timing of brain size and tool appearance. Remember the erectus barbed spear point? Tools pop up in the record with all sorts of brain complexities.

dhw: You then go on to quote the whole article, which includes all the environmental changes as well as the artefacts as the new requirements that existed at the time when the brain is known to have expanded.

DAVID: Yes all these changes, but they do not mention how that made a big brain or when that occurred in relation to all that was happening! It is pure Darwinism with environment making humans change.

dhw: They have given us a list of new requirements, including artefacts. You say your God expanded the brain in anticipation of the artefacts and environmental changes, and I propose that it expanded as a result of trying to meet the new requirements. We are simply going over old ground – presumably in order to cover the fact that your principal objection to my theory was that there were NO new requirements at the time, whereas we now know that there WERE new requirements. There really is no need to drag this out. We each know the other’s theory, but one of your objections to mine has proved to be wrong. That’s it.

Fine. Not wrong, differently interpreted as you say. The end. ;-)

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