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Camoflage video. Find the octopus:-http://www.sciencefriday.com/videos/watch/10397

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Ok.... that was just cool LOL.

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Kinesin is a motor molecule, moving toward positive charges in nano-tubules in the cells or along nerves. It uses ATP for energy. It carries necesary items for cell metabolism. It can also go to rest to save energy when it is not needed:-http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/08/110811151318.htm-And folks tell me there is no evidence for design.

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> And folks tell me there is no evidence for design.-Nature offers many designs that are better than the ones we think up. What are solar panels in nature? Tree dendrology (branching patterns) has solar panels: leaves. -This seventh grader tested the electric output of small panels arranged as branches and leaves of an oak tree he copied. 20% more efficient in the summer and 50% more efficient in the winter. Just as it should be!-http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/08/19/1218219/13-Year-Old-Uses-Fibonacci-Sequence-For-Solar-Power-Breakthrough-For the atheists here, keep this in mind when you tell us that God made the human retina in terrible fashion, upside down and backwards. Never mind that the construction makes for very efficient high energy usage and the same retina is in eagles.

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Salmon can smell a dangerous predator, if it ate salmon. Even young salmon have this ability:-http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-09-salmon-predators.html

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Egyptian bats can modify their biosonar; they can change the width of the beam and can change the intensity of the clicks:-http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/09/110913172625.htm

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A bettle can vary its egg laying to thwart parasitic wasps. The upper eggs in the stack are not really viable, and fool the wasp! But the bettle also seems to know if there are wasps or not, and varies its egg laying accordingly. Only epigenetic mechanisms could do this, not Darwin's hunt and peck of chance mutation and natural selection:-http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-09-beetle-eggs-shields-wasps.html

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Arctic ground squirrels make enormous body changes to prepare for hibernation. They produce enormous amounts of testosterone, making for huge muscles as well as fat layers, but they don't suffer the awful side effects humans encounter when they overdose on testosterone (as muscle builders do):-
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/09/110915131640.htm

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The currect (October) Red Bulletin magazine has a photo article on inventions based on studying natural plant and animal adaptations in an article called "Designed by Nature". Ever wonder how velcro was invented? A study of burrs! Enjoy:-http://www.redbull.com/cs/Satellite/en_INT/Red-Bulletin/001242813576014

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And now research has shown that ribosomes tiny organelles that receive mRNAs messages can modify and change those instructions:-http://the-scientist.com/2011/08/31/ribosomes-in-control/

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How ants cooperate and work together, flowing like liquids:-http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/nstv/2010/11/fluid-nature-ants-mimic-liquids-to-stay-afloat.html

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Back to making zombies out of insects. A virus does this to a larval form which then climbs a tree and showers other larvae with virus particles. Taken from The Scientist email I receive:-
Death-seeking caterpillar zombies -
A viral infection will drive this gypsy moth caterpillar to zombie suicide. Credit: Michael Grove
 
Like something from a horror movie, the baculovirus infects gypsy moths, turning them into automaton zombies that climb to the top of trees to die, liquefy, and rain down viral particles to infect their unsuspecting fellow caterpillars below. Healthy caterpillars, on the other hand, spend their days hiding in bark crevices and emerge only at night to feed in the safety of darkness.
 
Though pathogens controlling host behavior is not a new story, the genetic basis for these behavior changes remains a mystery. Researchers now have identified a gene, called egt, which allows the baculovirus to take the joystick and manipulate the caterpillars' climbing behavior. Researchers placed healthy and infected caterpillars into tall, sealed plastic bottles with food at the bottom. Healthy caterpillars remained below while the infected ones climbed and clung to the top of the container until they died, the researchers describe in Science. When the scientists deleted the egt gene, this behavior ceased, while reinserting the gene restored the climbing compulsion. This provides the first lead offering a genetic explanation on how some viruses are able to control their host's behavior, according to the press release.

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Now we have evidence that fish may be able to use tools with a plan to get to the food:-http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2011/09/28/tool-using-fish-caught-on-tape/?WT_mc_id=SA_DD_20110928

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How a python digests a once-in-awhile meal. Enlarge organs! Especially the heart:

http://the-scientist.com/2011/10/28/snake-heart-balloons-after-meal/

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What protects a woodpecker's brain from concussions?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15458633

I can't think of the itty-bitty Darwin steps to have the bird develop this solution. What made them decide to beat their heads against the hard bark of a tree instead of scooping up worms in the ground? I thought evolution developed toward advantageous results?

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How the bladderwort catches tiny animals in the pond it lives in. The aquatic plant never has roots and gets the nitrogen it needs from the animals it traps and digests. Note how fast it works, by sucking water in with the prey, in milliseconds:-http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/update-from-botanist-on-the-plants-that-ate-darwin/-And how did this develop? Hard to imagine a Darwin scenario.

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All these example of Nature's Wonders are excellent proofs of evolution.

DT: "I can't think of the itty-bitty Darwin steps to have the bird develop this solution." This is the argument from lack of imagination.

DT: "I thought evolution developed toward advantageous results?" DT knows very well that this is not true; evolution develops towards things that work, but not necessarily in the most advantageous way that a human engineer might design.

DT: "And folks tell me there is no evidence for design." There is plenty of evidence for design, just not by a supernatural designer.

DT: "Only epigenetic mechanisms could do this, not Darwin's hunt and peck of chance mutation and natural selection:" Understanding of evolutionary processes has moved on since Darwin wrote 150 years ago, just as physics has moved on since Newton.

--
GPJ

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DAVID: What protects a woodpecker's brain from concussions?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15458633

I can't think of the itty-bitty Darwin steps to have the bird develop this solution. What made them decide to beat their heads against the hard bark of a tree instead of scooping up worms in the ground?

GEORGE: This is the argument from lack of imagination.

DAVID (quoted by George): "Only epigenetic mechanisms could do this, not Darwin's hunt and peck of chance mutation and natural selection."

GEORGE: Understanding of evolutionary processes has moved on since Darwin wrote 150 years ago, just as physics has moved on since Newton.

Thank you, David, for all these fascinating posts, but Iâ€™m with Darwin (and George) in the context of this example. I can well imagine Percy Pecker suddenly having the bright idea of tapping on wood, and being rewarded by a juicy grub. A few more taps and he gets a splitting headache, but the discovery has now been made. Heâ€™s found a new source of food (highly advantageous). With practice, the body gradually adjusts itself (epigenetics), and the message, technique and physical adjustments are passed on, so that gradually â€“ or ittily-bittily over generations â€“ perfected techniques and adjustments turn Percies into Woodies. Such minor adjustments over time can lead to new varieties and maybe to new species. The fact that Darwin did not know the actual mechanics of these heritable changes does not invalidate his theory.

That, of course, doesnâ€™t explain major innovations such as sex, vision, flight, or sudden explosions of new species. However, David, Iâ€™d be interested to know exactly what you are advocating here. You also believe that evolution took place, and so how do you think Percy turned into Woody? Are you saying that God specifically designed Woody as a separate species, or preprogrammed him to knock on wood? If I were a theist, I would be inclined to believe that God created the initial mechanisms â€“ including epigenetics â€“ and then let the whole process run along precisely the lines that Darwin traced: a few forms giving rise to a vast range of self-generated variations and innovations all the way to us. Georgeâ€™s view is that the initial mechanisms made themselves. Neither view runs counter to Darwin.

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DAVID: What protects a woodpecker's brain from concussions?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15458633

I can't think of the itty-bitty Darwin steps to have the bird develop this solution. What made them decide to beat their heads against the hard bark of a tree instead of scooping up worms in the ground?

GEORGE: This is the argument from lack of imagination.

DAVID (quoted by George): "Only epigenetic mechanisms could do this, not Darwin's hunt and peck of chance mutation and natural selection."

GEORGE: Understanding of evolutionary processes has moved on since Darwin wrote 150 years ago, just as physics has moved on since Newton.

Thank you, David, for all these fascinating posts, but Iâ€™m with Darwin (and George) in the context of this example. I can well imagine Percy Pecker suddenly having the bright idea of tapping on wood, and being rewarded by a juicy grub. A few more taps and he gets a splitting headache, but the discovery has now been made. Heâ€™s found a new source of food (highly advantageous).

I keep presenting these nature's wonders because it raises all these questions of 'how did it happen?'

This is where Darwinian imagination makes no sense. It would have to be very soft bark for the first event to take place. Or why bother, when the ground is so wormy all the time! Perhaps the little pecker tried rotted wood, then why bother to hit the hard stuff? the point is wedon't know why the woodpecker ever started. Or how he got there. This is where Darwin is so weak. We see all the results, and how designed much of it looks. We see all the complexity of animal activity, in it own way as complex as human activities. And we can never see how Darwin did it, if he did. Epigenetics will be a big help, but the truth is evolution is a process that occurred and we don't know how. Designers and non-designers can only pick their own faith.

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David and I are having fun with woodpeckers.

DAVID: This is where Darwinian imagination makes no sense. It would have to be very soft bark for the first event to take place. Or why bother, when the ground is so wormy all the time! Perhaps the little pecker tried rotted wood, then why bother to hit the hard stuff?

Maybe he got sick of worms. Maybe the ground wasnâ€™t always wormy. Maybe his success with rotten wood encouraged him to try the hard stuff. Maybe he was barking mad.

DAVID: The point is we don't know why the woodpecker ever started. Or how he got there. This is where Darwin is so weak. We see all the results, and how designed much of it looks. We see all the complexity of animal activity, in its own way as complex as human activities. And we can never see how Darwin did it, if he did.

But we know the woodpecker did start. We know that some unknown human genius had the bright idea of making something round and rollable, and from that first primitive wheel weâ€™ve created vast industries. By analogy, Percy Pecker grabbed a grub from under the rotten bark, and started a new fashion. Then from one generation to the next, it seems likely that techniques and beaks got smarter and sharper as his descendants built on that first stroke of genius. We agree that all life forms developed out of earlier life forms, and any advantageous changes were preserved by Natural Selection. Darwinâ€™s theory doesnâ€™t attempt to pin-point the origin of the evolutionary mechanisms, although he sometimes refers to the Creator, and he didnâ€™t know what we now know or think we know about genetics and epigenetics â€“ so the emphasis on gradualism and on the randomness of mutations may well be a weakness. But in my view that doesnâ€™t undermine the basic theory.

DAVID: Epigenetics will be a big help, but the truth is evolution is a process that occurred and we don't know how. Designers and non-designers can only pick their own faith.

Of course I agree. My objection is to the general attack on Darwin, which might perhaps be better directed at people who draw unsubstantiated conclusions from his work. He didnâ€™t claim to know all the hows and whys and wherefores, but he certainly anticipated current trends of research: â€œA grand and almost untrodden field of inquiry will be opened, on the causes and laws of variation, on correlation of growth, on the effects of use and disuse, on the direct action of external conditions, and so forth.â€ (Origin, Recapitulation and Conclusion) Give the man his due!

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David and I are having fun with woodpeckers.

But we know the woodpecker did start.

No, we don't know how he did!. Can you point to the pre-woodpecker? What paleontology has shown ( Gould) is punctuated equilibrium: species appear de novo.

Darwinâ€™s theory doesnâ€™t attempt to pin-point the origin of the evolutionary mechanisms, But in my view that doesnâ€™t undermine the basic theory.

From his knowledge of his time, he had to assume gradualism.

He didnâ€™t claim to know all the hows and whys and wherefores, but he certainly anticipated current trends of research: â€œA grand and almost untrodden field of inquiry will be opened, on the causes and laws of variation, on correlation of growth, on the effects of use and disuse, on the direct action of external conditions, and so forth.â€ (Origin, Recapitulation and Conclusion) Give the man his due!

I will. Brilliant anticipation, just as we see in saltation and exaptations in the evolutionary process we study in retrospect. The process has many such unexpected findings compared to Darwin. And evolution has all those built-in unanticipated helpers to complexity progression, as with epigenetics. Where did 'they' come from? Again, de novo by chance or designed into the process?

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Another example of living complexity and the authors wonder how it happened. Toxoplasma gondi , a cat infection controls rats for its life cycle!

http://the-scientist.com/2011/08/19/parasite-spurs-rat-sexual-frenzy/

And which came first, liking to "drink your blood" or the protein to find it:

http://the-scientist.com/2011/08/04/how-vampire-bats-find-veins/

And, of course, the zombie stories: wasps used lady bugs for offspring storage:

http://the-scientist.com/2011/10/31/ladybug-zombies/

And finally, how spiders can find you to bite in the dark (Black widow, brown spider, etc.):

http://the-scientist.com/2011/10/28/super-sensitive-spider-sensilla/

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In the area of Texas we are semi-tropical enough to have palm trees of the hardier type. We also have landscapers who like to use sego palms, not palms at all, but plants the dinosaurs lived with!

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/artful-amoeba/2011/11/01/the-surprising-lives-of-cy...

And their reproductive process is weird.

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How do geese transit over the Himalyas in one day?

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=olympians-of-the-sky&WT.mc_id=SA_D...

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The living fossil the frilled shark has again been found off Portugal. It has been around for 80 million years. Like the coelacanth it creates the issue of why certain species survive forever without changing.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&...

"Scientists have discovered a dinosaur-era shark with 300 teeth and a snake’s head off the Portuguese coast.

"The frilled shark was caught by a trawler during a research project on how to minimise unwanted catches during commercial fishing, according to Sic Noticias TV.
The rare species dates back 80 million years.

"While its peers, such as the Tyrannosaurus rex and triceratops, died out long ago, this shark, with its frilled teeth and long, slim body still swims at great depths of at least 700 metres (2,300 feet).

"Professor Margarida Castro of the University of the Algarve told Sic Noticias that the shark has 300 teeth, “which allows it to trap squid, fish and other sharks in sudden lunges”.
According to the Institute for the Sea and Atmosphere, the captured shark measured 1.5 m in length and was swimming off the Algarve coast.

"The shark usually lives in the Atlantic and in waters near Australia, New Zealand and Japan, as reported by the BBC. At such depths the shark is in constant darkness, crushing pressure and extremely cold temperatures.

"It is not known why this species has survived when other prehistoric creatures have not. It has also been speculated that the frilled shark influenced 19th century sailors’ stories of sea serpents.

More comment:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2017/11/12/this-ancient-shar...

"The frilled fish has a remarkably simple anatomy, probably because of a lack of nutrients in its aquatic environment. But there’s no definitive answer about why it outlived its Cretaceous contemporaries."

Comment: And that is exactly the point. Why do certain species survive forever. Is it accidental or a perfect adaptation to its environment? Or part of God's plan?

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Some much camouflage they can only be found by following their sound at night, and only the males are noisy:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/11/171113095612.htm

"A new species of bushcricket which mimics dead leaves to the point of near invisibility and sings so loud humans can hear it has been examined for the first time using advanced technologies to reveal the unusual acoustic properties of its wings.

"Scientists investigating the newly-described species, named Typophyllum spurioculis in reference to the vivid orange eye spots on its legs and its necrotic-looking wings, found that when the males sing the entire wing resonates at the frequency of the call -- something which does not happen in other species of bushcrickets.

"Usually the resonating call of a bushcricket is localised to the region where the sound originates, and is created by a plectrum on the right wing being plucked by a tooth-covered file on the left wing to produce sound vibrations. The plectrum is connected to a drum-like structure that works as a speaker to radiate and amplify the signal.

"Significantly, the research team from the University of Lincoln, UK, found that in Typophyllum spurioculis, it is actually the whole wing, which resonates and amplifies the generated sound signals -- and that song is so loud it is audible to humans.

"The scientists also found that the females are larger than the males and also remain silent, with only the males employing their unusual acoustic abilities. Both sexes have wing regions that resemble damaged, discoloured leaves which provide excellent camouflage in the dense foliage of the South American rain forests, and are almost impossible to spot.

"In another twist on the conventional rules of nature, researchers also found that the bright orange spots, which sit at the base of the bushcricket's legs, are not to deter predators, but instead are likely to be involved in visual communication between the sexes. This is to be examined in future studies.

***

"The study was led by entomologist Dr Fernando Montealegre-Z from the University of Lincoln's School of Life Sciences. He said: "We wanted to find out more about this species, and we were very pleased to find an abundance of both sexes in the Cloud Forest of Colombia and Ecuador, something we had not been able to find before.

***

"'The unusual whole-wing-resonance might partly explain why the male's song is particularly loud and also in the range audible to the human ear, while its closest relatives are all singing at higher frequencies which we cannot detect with our ears.

Comment: This is a local adaptation to a particular forest. How did this insect get to just the right coloration? Is it God at work?

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DAVID: The living fossil the frilled shark has again been found off Portugal. It has been around for 80 million years. Like the coelacanth it creates the issue of why certain species survive forever without changing.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&...

QUOTE: "The frilled fish has a remarkably simple anatomy, probably because of a lack of nutrients in its aquatic environment. But there’s no definitive answer about why it outlived its Cretaceous contemporaries."

DAVID’s comment: And that is exactly the point. Why do certain species survive forever. Is it accidental or a perfect adaptation to its environment? Or part of God's plan?

Wonderful discovery, which even got our national newspapers excited. But I’m not sure what is “exactly the point” you are making. It’s puzzling to hear that you think it might be part of God’s plan to create the brain of Homo sapiens. Or if that was not God’s plan, what plan are you referring to?

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DAVID: The living fossil the frilled shark has again been found off Portugal. It has been around for 80 million years. Like the coelacanth it creates the issue of why certain species survive forever without changing.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&...

QUOTE: "The frilled fish has a remarkably simple anatomy, probably because of a lack of nutrients in its aquatic environment. But there’s no definitive answer about why it outlived its Cretaceous contemporaries."

DAVID’s comment: And that is exactly the point. Why do certain species survive forever. Is it accidental or a perfect adaptation to its environment? Or part of God's plan?

dhw: Wonderful discovery, which even got our national newspapers excited. But I’m not sure what is “exactly the point” you are making. It’s puzzling to hear that you think it might be part of God’s plan to create the brain of Homo sapiens. Or if that was not God’s plan, what plan are you referring to?

What the shark does is raise the question of why certain species survive forever, and does God play a role? That was the issue I raised, without an answer.

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QUOTE: "The frilled fish has a remarkably simple anatomy, probably because of a lack of nutrients in its aquatic environment. But there’s no definitive answer about why it outlived its Cretaceous contemporaries."

DAVID’s comment: And that is exactly the point. Why do certain species survive forever. Is it accidental or a perfect adaptation to its environment? Or part of God's plan?

dhw: Wonderful discovery, which even got our national newspapers excited. But I’m not sure what is “exactly the point” you are making. It’s puzzling to hear that you think it might be part of God’s plan to create the brain of Homo sapiens. Or if that was not God’s plan, what plan are you referring to?

DAVID: What the shark does is raise the question of why certain species survive forever, and does God play a role? That was the issue I raised, without an answer.

Unless you believe in God, nothing lasts forever, and I don’t suppose Frilly Fred will last much longer if Monster Man gets to work. My guess is that he’s been lucky enough so far to be in an environment that hasn’t killed him off. However, I was curious as to how you would fit him into the one and only plan you allow God to have. But I suppose I’ll just have to add him to the long, long list of things extinct (or lucky enough to be extant) to eat or be eaten until God produced the human brain.

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DAVID: What the shark does is raise the question of why certain species survive forever, and does God play a role? That was the issue I raised, without an answer.

dhw: Unless you believe in God, nothing lasts forever, and I don’t suppose Frilly Fred will last much longer if Monster Man gets to work. My guess is that he’s been lucky enough so far to be in an environment that hasn’t killed him off. However, I was curious as to how you would fit him into the one and only plan you allow God to have. But I suppose I’ll just have to add him to the long, long list of things extinct (or lucky enough to be extant) to eat or be eaten until God produced the human brain.

But there is an ancient life form (stromatolite) from the probable beginning of life that is still here:

https://cosmosmagazine.com/palaeontology/extremely-ancient-lifeform-discovered-in-tasmania

"A previously unknown type of stromatolite – rare and ancient biological structures that first evolved around 3.7 billion years ago – has been found living in freshwater wetlands in the Australian island state of Tasmania.

***

"Stromatolites comprise layers of biochemical material that gradually accrete from a combination of trapped sediments and mats of microbes, particularly cyanobacteria.

"Stubborn survivors of the Eoarchean Era, stromatolites are extremely rare today. They are found mainly in shallow marine environments or hyper-saline lakes.

"The best-known examples are located at Shark Bay in Western Australia. Others have been found in Chile and Brazil, Mexico and the Bahamas.

"Despite the association of other examples with salty sea water and lakes, the Tasmanian stromatolites exist in mildly alkaline spring water surrounded by peaty soil. They comprise not only cyanobacteria, but also other microbes including alphaproteobacteria and an unusually high number of photosynthesising chloroflexi – a combination, say the researchers, that makes them unique.

"Also unusual is the fact that some of the stromatolites extend several centimetres above the water level.

“'Cool-temperate freshwater wetlands are not a conventional stromatolite niche,” the researchers write, “suggesting that stromatolites may be more common than previously thought.”

"Whatever abundance stromatolites achieved during their first couple of billion years of existence was sharply curtailed around 600 million years ago when multicellular organisms started to emerge. Immobile and edible, the stromatolites were both easy to out-compete and consume.

"Perhaps significantly, Proemse and her colleagues report that in the area of the UNESCO-listed Tasmanian Wilderness World Heritage Area where they made their finds, complex invertebrates are uncommon. Snails, known stromatolite predators, are extremely scarce, because the peaty soil leads them to accumulate debilitating levels of carbonate in their shells."

Comment: Obviously some life forms survive forever with no need to evolve. I repeat my suggestion that there a drive to complexity that obviously is not present in some organisms, which also raises the issue that external stresses and challenges may not be the only driver for evolution of life.

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DAVID’s comment: Obviously some life forms survive forever with no need to evolve. I repeat my suggestion that there a drive to complexity that obviously is not present in some organisms, which also raises the issue that external stresses and challenges may not be the only driver for evolution of life.

Not even the sun will survive forever, but we needn’t dwell on that. It is indeed obvious that if any particular form of life survives without changing, it doesn’t need to change! We have said the same thing over and over again about bacteria. You like to talk of a drive to complexity, and I prefer to talk of a drive for survival and/or improvement. The former is a response to stresses and challenges, and the latter is a response to opportunities. As before, I see no purpose in complexity just for the sake of complexity.

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DAVID’s comment: Obviously some life forms survive forever with no need to evolve. I repeat my suggestion that there a drive to complexity that obviously is not present in some organisms, which also raises the issue that external stresses and challenges may not be the only driver for evolution of life.

dhw: Not even the sun will survive forever, but we needn’t dwell on that. It is indeed obvious that if any particular form of life survives without changing, it doesn’t need to change! We have said the same thing over and over again about bacteria. You like to talk of a drive to complexity, and I prefer to talk of a drive for survival and/or improvement. The former is a response to stresses and challenges, and the latter is a response to opportunities. As before, I see no purpose in complexity just for the sake of complexity.

Your response does not explain the human brain. It goes way beyond simple survival.

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DAVID’s comment: Obviously some life forms survive forever with no need to evolve. I repeat my suggestion that there a drive to complexity that obviously is not present in some organisms, which also raises the issue that external stresses and challenges may not be the only driver for evolution of life.

dhw: Not even the sun will survive forever, but we needn’t dwell on that. It is indeed obvious that if any particular form of life survives without changing, it doesn’t need to change! We have said the same thing over and over again about bacteria. You like to talk of a drive to complexity, and I prefer to talk of a drive for survival and/or improvement. The former is a response to stresses and challenges, and the latter is a response to opportunities. As before, I see no purpose in complexity just for the sake of complexity.

DAVID: Your response does not explain the human brain. It goes way beyond simple survival.

Of course it does. It comes under “improvement” – or do you not agree that the human brain is an improvement over the ant brain, the weaverbird brain, the chimp brain in terms of its capabilities?

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DAVID’s comment: Obviously some life forms survive forever with no need to evolve. I repeat my suggestion that there a drive to complexity that obviously is not present in some organisms, which also raises the issue that external stresses and challenges may not be the only driver for evolution of life.

dhw: Not even the sun will survive forever, but we needn’t dwell on that. It is indeed obvious that if any particular form of life survives without changing, it doesn’t need to change! We have said the same thing over and over again about bacteria. You like to talk of a drive to complexity, and I prefer to talk of a drive for survival and/or improvement. The former is a response to stresses and challenges, and the latter is a response to opportunities. As before, I see no purpose in complexity just for the sake of complexity.

DAVID: Your response does not explain the human brain. It goes way beyond simple survival.

dhw: Of course it does. It comes under “improvement” – or do you not agree that the human brain is an improvement over the ant brain, the weaverbird brain, the chimp brain in terms of its capabilities?

A drive for survival implies a necessity for response to challenges. The human brain is not needed for that. Your improvement then is equal to my complexity drive.

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dhw: It is indeed obvious that if any particular form of life survives without changing, it doesn’t need to change! We have said the same thing over and over again about bacteria. You like to talk of a drive to complexity, and I prefer to talk of a drive for survival and/or improvement. The former is a response to stresses and challenges, and the latter is a response to opportunities. As before, I see no purpose in complexity just for the sake of complexity.

DAVID: Your response does not explain the human brain. It goes way beyond simple survival.

dhw: Of course it does. It comes under “improvement” – or do you not agree that the human brain is an improvement over the ant brain, the weaverbird brain, the chimp brain in terms of its capabilities?

DAVID: A drive for survival implies a necessity for response to challenges. The human brain is not needed for that. Your improvement then is equal to my complexity drive.

All dealt with above. I prefer “improvement” as I don’t see the point of complexity for the sake of complexity.

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dhw: It is indeed obvious that if any particular form of life survives without changing, it doesn’t need to change! We have said the same thing over and over again about bacteria. You like to talk of a drive to complexity, and I prefer to talk of a drive for survival and/or improvement. The former is a response to stresses and challenges, and the latter is a response to opportunities. As before, I see no purpose in complexity just for the sake of complexity.

DAVID: Your response does not explain the human brain. It goes way beyond simple survival.

dhw: Of course it does. It comes under “improvement” – or do you not agree that the human brain is an improvement over the ant brain, the weaverbird brain, the chimp brain in terms of its capabilities?

DAVID: A drive for survival implies a necessity for response to challenges. The human brain is not needed for that. Your improvement then is equal to my complexity drive.

dhw: All dealt with above. I prefer “improvement” as I don’t see the point of complexity for the sake of complexity.

I see it as an explanation for things like the human brain that are too complex for the necessity of survival. Comparing it to the chimp does not address the point. The chimp lives and is happy.

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dhw: It is indeed obvious that if any particular form of life survives without changing, it doesn’t need to change! We have said the same thing over and over again about bacteria. You like to talk of a drive to complexity, and I prefer to talk of a drive for survival and/or improvement. The former is a response to stresses and challenges, and the latter is a response to opportunities. As before, I see no purpose in complexity just for the sake of complexity.

DAVID: Your response does not explain the human brain. It goes way beyond simple survival.

dhw: Of course it does. It comes under “improvement” – or do you not agree that the human brain is an improvement over the ant brain, the weaverbird brain, the chimp brain in terms of its capabilities?

DAVID: A drive for survival implies a necessity for response to challenges. The human brain is not needed for that. Your improvement then is equal to my complexity drive.

All dealt with above. I prefer “improvement” as I don’t see the point of complexity for the sake of complexity.

So... if I read this right, you are saying that some things evolved, some didn't. Some things just started off fully functional and functionally perfect. It's like magic!But just because we have direct evidence that some things didn't evolve, we believe that other things did evolve, because we like to limit our belief in magic, and everything popping up functionally perfect would be suspiciously magical, and we can't have that. Harumph!

--
What is the purpose of living? How about, 'to reduce needless suffering. It seems to me to be a worthy purpose.

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dhw: It is indeed obvious that if any particular form of life survives without changing, it doesn’t need to change! We have said the same thing over and over again about bacteria. You like to talk of a drive to complexity, and I prefer to talk of a drive for survival and/or improvement. The former is a response to stresses and challenges, and the latter is a response to opportunities. As before, I see no purpose in complexity just for the sake of complexity.

DAVID: Your response does not explain the human brain. It goes way beyond simple survival.

dhw: Of course it does. It comes under “improvement” – or do you not agree that the human brain is an improvement over the ant brain, the weaverbird brain, the chimp brain in terms of its capabilities?

DAVID: A drive for survival implies a necessity for response to challenges. The human brain is not needed for that. Your improvement then is equal to my complexity drive.

dhw: All dealt with above. I prefer “improvement” as I don’t see the point of complexity for the sake of complexity.

Tony: So... if I read this right, you are saying that some things evolved, some didn't. Some things just started off fully functional and functionally perfect. It's like magic!But just because we have direct evidence that some things didn't evolve, we believe that other things did evolve, because we like to limit our belief in magic, and everything popping up functionally perfect would be suspiciously magical, and we can't have that. Harumph!

dhw just can't have everything perfect from the beginning of its appearance. Sounds like intelligent design.

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dhw: I prefer “improvement” as I don’t see the point of complexity for the sake of complexity.

DAVID: I see it as an explanation for things like the human brain that are too complex for the necessity of survival. Comparing it to the chimp does not address the point. The chimp lives and is happy.

Once again, I see the complexity of the human brain as the product of the drive for improvement and not just survival, though one cannot draw a strict borderline between them, since improvement can also refer to survival (the invention of spears was an improvement over trying to kill a dangerous animal with one’s bare hands). I don’t know about “happy” chimps, but ALL non-human organisms that survive manage to do so without a human brain, so you can say they live and are happy, so what point are you addressing? Mine is that the human brain evolved through the quest for improvement, whereas yours seems to be that it evolved through the quest for complexity.

dhw: I prefer “improvement” as I don’t see the point of complexity for the sake of complexity.

Tony: So... if I read this right, you are saying that some things evolved, some didn't. Some things just started off fully functional and functionally perfect. It's like magic!But just because we have direct evidence that some things didn't evolve, we believe that other things did evolve, because we like to limit our belief in magic, and everything popping up functionally perfect would be suspiciously magical, and we can't have that. Harumph!

No, my hypothesis entails only one form of “magic”, which offers us the best evidence of design, and that is the first living cells. They arrived fully functional and functionally perfect. And within their perfection lay a mechanism that enabled them not only to reproduce but also to combine with other cells to expand their range of functions. New combinations that did not start off fully functional would not have survived. Every single cellular community that survives HAS to start off fully functional, but the mechanism passed on from those first cells also enables existing cell communities (organisms) to adapt to changing environments and even to invent new structures that will enable to them to exploit new conditions. (That doesn't mean EVERY individual has to change. Single-celled organisms have survived very nicely, even if their buddies went on to bigger things.) An organism that could not get enough food on land might explore the water and find an abundance of food. The cell communities would then restructure themselves to enable the organism to live more comfortably in the water. Hence the land-dwelling pre-whale that ultimately became the whale. The “magic” is the inventive intelligence of the cell communities of which all organisms are made, and I see no reason at all why a theist should doubt the capacity of his/her God to create such a mechanism. Furthermore, it explains what some of us believe to be the facts of life’s history.

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dhw: I prefer “improvement” as I don’t see the point of complexity for the sake of complexity.

Tony: So... if I read this right, you are saying that some things evolved, some didn't. Some things just started off fully functional and functionally perfect. It's like magic!But just because we have direct evidence that some things didn't evolve, we believe that other things did evolve, because we like to limit our belief in magic, and everything popping up functionally perfect would be suspiciously magical, and we can't have that. Harumph!

dhw: No, my hypothesis entails only one form of “magic”, which offers us the best evidence of design, and that is the first living cells. They arrived fully functional and functionally perfect. And within their perfection lay a mechanism that enabled them not only to reproduce but also to combine with other cells to expand their range of functions.

But this is Tony's magic for which you have no logical explanation. You can logically see the design as a strong argument for design and deny the need for a designer.

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dhw: (to Tony:) No, my hypothesis entails only one form of “magic”, which offers us the best evidence of design, and that is the first living cells. They arrived fully functional and functionally perfect. And within their perfection lay a mechanism that enabled them not only to reproduce but also to combine with other cells to expand their range of functions.

DAVID: But this is Tony's magic for which you have no logical explanation. You can logically see the design as a strong argument for design and deny the need for a designer.

The design is a strong argument for a designer, and I do not "deny" it. It is a major factor in my inability to embrace atheism. Under “dangerous bacteria” we had the following exchange:

dhw: As for alternatives to your God, you know perfectly well that one is chance and one is the panpsychist hypothesis I have described over and over again (bottom up evolution), and you know that I find these hypotheses as difficult to believe in as the universal sourceless conscious mind you call God. And that is why I am an agnostic. (See also my response to the article on panpsychism)

DAVID: Yes I understand your hang ups.

I do not "deny" the designer or chance or the panpsychist hypothesis, but I cannot believe in any of them, since all of them defy logic in one way or another. In one post you understand my agnosticism, and in another you don’t.

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dhw: As for alternatives to your God, you know perfectly well that one is chance and one is the panpsychist hypothesis I have described over and over again (bottom up evolution), and you know that I find these hypotheses as difficult to believe in as the universal sourceless conscious mind you call God. And that is why I am an agnostic. (See also my response to the article on panpsychism)

DAVID: Yes I understand your hang ups.

dhw: I do not "deny" the designer or chance or the panpsychist hypothesis, but I cannot believe in any of them, since all of them defy logic in one way or another. In one post you understand my agnosticism, and in another you don’t.

I fully understand your agnosticism. You see the need for design, but can't find a designer.

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dhw: I do not "deny" the designer or chance or the panpsychist hypothesis, but I cannot believe in any of them, since all of them defy logic in one way or another. In one post you understand my agnosticism, and in another you don’t.

DAVID: I fully understand your agnosticism. You see the need for design, but can't find a designer.

It’s not that simple. I see a conscious designer (your God), atheistic chance and atheistic panpsychism as equally unbelievable explanations. And so actual belief, as you have always acknowledged, requires faith – i.e wilfully closing one’s eyes to the great gaps in all three hypotheses. I can’t do that. Your explanation of my agnosticism is therefore too one-sided. An atheist would say: “You see the absurdity of the supernatural God hypothesis, but you can’t find a natural explanation for life.”

However, one of those hypotheses must be closer to the truth than the others, so I am horribly wrong one way or the other!

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dhw: I do not "deny" the designer or chance or the panpsychist hypothesis, but I cannot believe in any of them, since all of them defy logic in one way or another. In one post you understand my agnosticism, and in another you don’t.

DAVID: I fully understand your agnosticism. You see the need for design, but can't find a designer.

dhw: It’s not that simple. I see a conscious designer (your God), atheistic chance and atheistic panpsychism as equally unbelievable explanations. And so actual belief, as you have always acknowledged, requires faith – i.e wilfully closing one’s eyes to the great gaps in all three hypotheses. I can’t do that. Your explanation of my agnosticism is therefore too one-sided. An atheist would say: “You see the absurdity of the supernatural God hypothesis, but you can’t find a natural explanation for life.”

However, one of those hypotheses must be closer to the truth than the others, so I am horribly wrong one way or the other!

Your phrase, 'closer to the truth' is the key to your thinking. I view one of the three as THE truth. You imply there is possibly a fourth way or more and we can never know for sure, and you cannot except anything beyond absolute proof.

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DAVID: I fully understand your agnosticism. You see the need for design, but can't find a designer.

dhw: It’s not that simple. I see a conscious designer (your God), atheistic chance and atheistic panpsychism as equally unbelievable explanations. And so actual belief, as you have always acknowledged, requires faith – i.e wilfully closing one’s eyes to the great gaps in all three hypotheses. I can’t do that. Your explanation of my agnosticism is therefore too one-sided. An atheist would say: “You see the absurdity of the supernatural God hypothesis, but you can’t find a natural explanation for life.”
However, one of those hypotheses must be closer to the truth than the others, so I am horribly wrong one way or the other!

DAVID: Your phrase, 'closer to the truth' is the key to your thinking. I view one of the three as THE truth. You imply there is possibly a fourth way or more and we can never know for sure, and you cannot except anything beyond absolute proof.

“Closer to the truth” allows for variations (such as polytheism, pantheism). No, we can never know for sure unless there is an afterlife when all is revealed, and you know as well as I do that otherwise absolute proof is impossible. The best you can do is shut your eyes to the flaws in whatever hypothesis you choose, or stay on the fence. I continue to have respect for those who make a choice, so long as they don’t ridicule those who choose differently, and I expect them to have the same respect for my non-choice – which I know from our long years of friendship that you do.

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DAVID: I fully understand your agnosticism. You see the need for design, but can't find a designer.

dhw: It’s not that simple. I see a conscious designer (your God), atheistic chance and atheistic panpsychism as equally unbelievable explanations. And so actual belief, as you have always acknowledged, requires faith – i.e wilfully closing one’s eyes to the great gaps in all three hypotheses. I can’t do that. Your explanation of my agnosticism is therefore too one-sided. An atheist would say: “You see the absurdity of the supernatural God hypothesis, but you can’t find a natural explanation for life.”
However, one of those hypotheses must be closer to the truth than the others, so I am horribly wrong one way or the other!

DAVID: Your phrase, 'closer to the truth' is the key to your thinking. I view one of the three as THE truth. You imply there is possibly a fourth way or more and we can never know for sure, and you cannot except anything beyond absolute proof.

dhw: “Closer to the truth” allows for variations (such as polytheism, pantheism). No, we can never know for sure unless there is an afterlife when all is revealed, and you know as well as I do that otherwise absolute proof is impossible. The best you can do is shut your eyes to the flaws in whatever hypothesis you choose, or stay on the fence. I continue to have respect for those who make a choice, so long as they don’t ridicule those who choose differently, and I expect them to have the same respect for my non-choice – which I know from our long years of friendship that you do.

I absolutely respect your non-choice. Our discussion allows all others to review their own choices.

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The use vision and smell and can't be fooled:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/11/171122124027.htm

"Cataglyphis fortis desert ants can learn visual or olfactory cues to pinpoint their nest, but only if these cues are unique to specify the nest entrance. Scientists from the Max Planck Institute for Chemical Ecology in Jena, Germany, discovered that the insects ignore visual landmarks or odors as nest-defining cues, if these occur not only near the nest but also along the route. Hence, ants are able to evaluate the informative value of such cues and are not fooled by ubiquitous unreliable cues.

"Homing desert ants are able to distinguish unambiguous from ambiguous landmarks and include this information in their behavioral responses when returning to their nest. This ability became obvious in behavioral experiments in Tunisia. "The ants ignored visual or olfactory cues that were not reliable. Unreliable nest cues are those that are not only found at the nest entrance, but are ubiquitous along the route. The ability to assess the informational value of visual landmarks or odor trails as relevant or irrelevant for the nest search is another example of the amazing cognitive performance of the tiny ant brain," says Roman Huber, the first author of the study.

***

"Homing desert ants are able to distinguish unambiguous from ambiguous landmarks and include this information in their behavioral responses when returning to their nest. This ability became obvious in behavioral experiments in Tunisia. "The ants ignored visual or olfactory cues that were not reliable. Unreliable nest cues are those that are not only found at the nest entrance, but are ubiquitous along the route. The ability to assess the informational value of visual landmarks or odor trails as relevant or irrelevant for the nest search is another example of the amazing cognitive performance of the tiny ant brain," says Roman Huber, the first author of the study.

***

"If one part of the landmark was unambiguous and only found near the nest, whereas the other was ubiquitous and found repeatedly along the route, the ants only used the unambiguous part, for example the odor, as reliable information and navigated towards this cue on their way back to the nest. They did not pay any attention to the several other black cards (the ambiguous part of the nest cue) they encountered in the channel," Roman Huber summarizes."

Comment: The ant brain may be tiny but it obviously has very complex neurologic networks to allow this kind of discerning ability. The point is size is only one discerning characteristic in judging the ability of a brain to function in a complex way. Highly sophisticated neural networks undoubtedly play a larger role. This is relevant in discussing brain size and function in any organisms.

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They literally pick up oxygen from the water through their butts (cloaca):

https://www.livescience.com/61018-turtles-breathe-through-butt.html?utm_source=ls-newsl...

"As an ectotherm — an animal that relies on an external source of heat — a turtle's body temperature tracks that of its environment. If the pond water is 1℃, so is the turtle's body.

"But turtles have lungs and they breathe air. So, how is it possible for them to survive in a frigid pond with a lid of ice that prevents them from coming up for air? The answer lies in the relationship between body temperature and metabolism.

"A cold turtle in cold water has a slow metabolism. The colder it gets, the slower its metabolism, which translates into lower energy and oxygen demands.

"When turtles hibernate, they rely on stored energy and uptake oxygen from the pond water by moving it across body surfaces that are flush with blood vessels. In this way, they can get enough oxygen to support their minimal needs without using their lungs. Turtles have one area that is especially well vascularized — their butts.

***

"With very few exceptions (e.g., box turtles), adult turtles cannot survive freezing temperatures; they cannot survive having ice crystals in their bodies. This is why freshwater turtles hibernate in water, where their body temperatures remain relatively stable and will not go below freezing.

Water acts as a temperature buffer; it has a high specific heat, which means it takes a lot of energy to change water temperature. Pond water temperatures remain quite stable over the winter and an ectotherm sitting in that water will have a similarly stable body temperature. Air, on the other hand, has a low specific heat so its temperature fluctuates, and gets too cold for turtle survival.

"An ice-covered pond presents two problems for turtles: they can't surface to take a breath, and little new oxygen gets into the water. On top of that, there are other critters in the pond consuming the oxygen that was produced by aquatic plants during the summer.

"Over the winter, as the oxygen is used up, the pond becomes hypoxic (low oxygen content) or anoxic (depleted of oxygen). Some turtles can handle water with low oxygen content — others cannot.

"Snapping turtles and painted turtles tolerate this stressful situation by switching their metabolism to one that doesn't require oxygen. This ability is amazing, but can be dangerous, even lethal, if it goes on for too long, because acids build up in their tissues as a result of this metabolic switch.

"An ice-covered pond presents two problems for turtles: they can't surface to take a breath, and little new oxygen gets into the water. On top of that, there are other critters in the pond consuming the oxygen that was produced by aquatic plants during the summer.

"Over the winter, as the oxygen is used up, the pond becomes hypoxic (low oxygen content) or anoxic (depleted of oxygen). Some turtles can handle water with low oxygen content — others cannot.

"Snapping turtles and painted turtles tolerate this stressful situation by switching their metabolism to one that doesn't require oxygen. This ability is amazing, but can be dangerous, even lethal, if it goes on for too long, because acids build up in their tissues as a result of this metabolic switch.

***

"My research group has monitored several species of freshwater turtles during their hibernation. We attach tiny devices to the turtles' shells that measure temperature and allow us to follow them under the ice.

"We've found that all species choose to hibernate in wetland locations that hover just above freezing, that they move around under the ice, hibernate in groups and return to the same places winter after winter."

Comment: the question is how this developed and it requires a metabolic switch in some species. One cannot simply swim to the bottom and outwait winter. It is logical to say it was all developed at once, but if that is the case it requires God to arrange it.

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Not quite hibernation:

https://phys.org/news/2020-12-torpor-neat-survival-thought-rare.html

"Life is hard for small animals in the wild, but they have many solutions to the challenges of their environment. One of the most fascinating of these strategies is torpor. Not, to be confused with sleep or Sunday afternoon lethargy, torpor is a complex response to the costs of living.

"To enter torpor, an animal decreases its metabolism, reducing its energy requirements. A torpid animal will often be curled in a tight ball in its nest and look like it's sleeping.

"Once thought to occur only in birds and mammals in the Northern Hemisphere where winters are more pronounced, we now know torpor is widespread in small Australian mammals, and has also been observed in many small Australian bird species.

***

"With a lower metabolic rate, the animal's body temperature decreases—sometimes by as much as 30°C. How low it goes can depend on the extent of the metabolic reduction and the temperature of animal's immediate environment. The reduced body temperature further lowers the metabolic rate.

***

"Many pregnant and lactating bats and marsupials, and even the echidna, synchronise torpor with reproduction to cope with the energetic costs of mating, pregnancy or lactation.

There are two main types of torpor: daily torpor and hibernation.

***

"Animals that hibernate lower their metabolic rate further and have longer torpor bouts than those that use daily torpor. An example of an Australian hibernator is the eastern pygmy possum, a 40g marsupial found in south eastern Australia that hibernates regularly, decreasing its body temperature from approximately 35 °C to as low as 5°C.

"When active, this species can survive for less than half a day on 1g of fat, but when hibernating, it can survive for two weeks.

***

"The question people often ask about torpor, is "can humans do it?" Interestingly, some small primates have been observed using torpor. While it is technically possible to induce torpor in humans chemically, torpor is a very complex physiological process, and there are many aspects of it scientists still don't fully understand."

Comment: The final comment above suggests that this process would be hard to evolve naturally. It is such an integrated and convoluted physiological process involving multiple alterations in metabolism, it must have been designed by God to have this degree of convergence in evolution.

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On and off for seven months:

https://phys.org/news/2021-03-unusual-creature-winter-slumber-scientists.html

"If you binged on high-calorie snacks and then spent the winter crashed on the couch in a months-long food coma, you'd likely wake up worse for wear. Unless you happen to be a fat-tailed dwarf lemur.

"This squirrel-sized primate lives in the forests of Madagascar, where it spends up to seven months each year mostly motionless and chilling, using the minimum energy necessary to withstand the winter. While zonked, it lives off of fat stored in its tail.

***

"'Hibernation is literally in their DNA," Blanco said.

***

"For four months, the eight lemurs in the study spent some 70% of their time in metabolic slow-motion: curled up, cool to the touch, barely moving or breathing for up to 11 days at a stretch, showing little interest in food—akin to their wild counterparts.

"Now that spring is afoot in North Carolina and the temperatures are warming, the lemurs are waking up. Their first physical exams after they emerged showed them to be 22% to 35% lighter than they were at the start but otherwise healthy. Their heart rates are back up from just eight beats per minute to about 200, and their appetites have returned.

"We've been able to replicate their wild conditions well enough to get them to replicate their natural patterns," said Erin Ehmke, who directs research at the center.

"Females were the hibernation champs, out-stuporing the males and maintaining more of their winter weight. They need what's left of their fat stores for the months of pregnancy and lactation that typically follow after they wake up, Blanco said.

***

"Blanco suspects the impressive energy-saving capabilities of these lemurs may also relate to another trait they possess: longevity. The oldest dwarf lemur on record, Jonas, died at the Duke Lemur Center at the age of 29. The fact that dwarf lemurs live longer than non-hibernating species their size suggests that something intrinsic to their biological machinery may protect against aging."

Comment: These folks learned how to replicate wild conditions in their lab. We all know what hibernation looks like. Maybe they'll find out how it works. If it is their DNA as a special code, how did that happen? How did they learn to hibernate? Or did God adjust their code?

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A recent study:

https://phys.org/news/2022-11-young-trees-insect-bugs.html

"Bats help keep forests growing. Without bats to hold their populations in check, insects that munch on tree seedlings go wild, doing three to nine times more damage than when bats are on the scene. That's according to a new study from the University of Illinois. The article, "Bats reduce insect density and defoliation in temperate forests: an exclusion experiment," is published in Ecology.

***

"The research team built giant mesh-enclosed structures in an Indiana forest to exclude the eight bat species that frequent the area, including two federally threatened or endangered species. The mesh openings were large enough to allow insects free movement in and out, but not flying bats. Every morning and evening for three summers, Beilke opened and closed the mesh sides and tops of the structures to ensure birds had daytime access to the plots. That way, she could be sure she was isolating the impacts of bats.

"Beilke then measured the number of insects on oak and hickory seedlings in the forest understory, as well as the amount of defoliation per seedling. Because she erected an equal number of box frames without mesh, Beilke was able to compare insect density and defoliation with and without bats.

"Overall, the researchers found three times as many insects and five times more defoliation on the seedlings when bats were excluded than in control plots that allowed bats in each night. When analyzed separately, oaks experienced nine times more defoliation and hickories three times more without bats.

"'We know from other research that oaks and hickories are ecologically important, with acorns and hickory nuts providing food sources for wildlife and the trees acting as hosts to native insects. Bats use both oaks and hickories as roosts, and now we see they may be using them as sources of prey insects, as well. Our data suggest bats and oaks have a mutually beneficial relationship," Beilke says.

"While insect pressure was intense in plots without bat predation, the seedlings didn't succumb to their injuries. But the researchers say long-term bat declines could prove fatal for the baby trees.

"'We were observing sublethal levels of defoliation, but we know defoliation makes seedlings more vulnerable to death from other factors such as drought or fungal diseases. It would be hard to track the fate of these trees over 90 years, but I think a natural next step is to examine the impact of persistent low levels of defoliation on these seedlings," Beilke says. "To what extent does repeated defoliation reduce their competitive ability and contribute to oak declines?"

"The researchers point out that birds, many of which share the same insect diets as bats, are also declining. While they specifically sought to isolate bats' impact on forest trees, the researchers are confident insect density and defoliation rates would have been higher if they had excluded both birds and bats in their study. In fact, similar exclusion studies focusing on birds failed to account for bats in their study designs, leaving mesh enclosures up all night.

"'When we were initially working on the proposal for this research, we looked at 37 different bird exclusion studies, across agriculture and forest systems. We found nearly all of them had made this mistake. Most of them had not opened or removed their treatment plots to bats," Beilke says.

"In other words, before Beilke's study, birds were getting at least partial credit for work bats were doing in the shadows."

Comment: more important information about this ecosystem.

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Arctic terns travel Arctic to Antarctic:

https://www.sciencealert.com/worlds-largest-seabirds-follow-sound-across-the-ocean-to-f...

"Arctic terns travel from the Arctic to Antarctica and back as part of their annual migration. Wandering albatrosses (Diomedea exulans) fly the equivalent of ten times to the Moon and back over their lifetimes.

"There has been a lot of research into how seabirds choose their flight paths and find food. They seem to use their sight or sense of smell to assess local conditions.

"Wandering albatrosses can travel more than 10,000km in a single foraging trip, though, and we don't know much about how these birds use mid- and long-range cues from their environment to decide where to go.

"For the first time, however, my team's recent study gives an insight into how birds such as wandering albatrosses may use sound to determine what conditions are like further away.

"Previous research has shown that seabirds not only seek information about where to find food, but how to do so efficiently. We discovered that the way wandering albatrosses use their sense of sound may be crucial.

"Our study looked at how these birds respond to a very low-frequency type of sound called infrasound, which can travel for thousands of kilometres.

"While it's typically inaudible to humans, we know that some animals can hear infrasound. When waves crash together or against coastlines, they create a frequency of infrasound called microbarums. This was the type of infrasound our study looked at.

***

"Infrasound is also generated when waves crash against coastlines, and we know that many coastal seabirds use the coast to select their flight paths and find their way back to their breeding colonies. So, infrasound could reveal the location of static features like coastlines, giving seabirds important information across long distances.

"Despite the potential of this cue for seabirds, our paper (published in PNAS) is the first evidence that seabirds may respond to infrasound, which is monitored globally through a network of sensors installed by the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty Organization (CTBTO).

"This system was installed to detect nuclear tests, but its byproduct is huge amounts of data which scientists can use. We combined the CTBTO's records with our own GPS tracking data from 89 wandering albatrosses to compare microbarums and the birds' movements.

"This allowed us to isolate data that showed how these albatrosses appeared to make decisions about where to go next. Our findings showed they chose the direction with the loudest infrasound.

"This suggests the birds could use infrasound to find food or to minimise the energy they use on their travels. However, we are not able to say for sure why louder areas are better.

Comment: Long sea migrations must have some guidance principles. We know of using the Earth's magnetic field. Using different ranges of sound is a very interesting theory. How did this evolve is the question. Short trips becoming longer over time could teach the birds to follow sounds for food. Thus a learned instinct. The alternative is coded by design.

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Pyrethrins are in short supply, due to the floods in Australia. Perhaps the spiders in this article could be trained to help out. Spider-produced ant repellent:

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-11-chemical-weapon-spider-silk-repels.html

4431 views

How did these tiny shrimp-like live safely under water before they learned how to make their houses?

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-11-shrimp-like-crustacean-gooey-underwater-silk.html

Any Darwin just-so story available?

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What can spiders do that we can't so far? Lets save energy and make fibers like the spiders do:

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-11-spider-know-how-future-energy.html

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Shell fish have mother-of-pearl layers of defense. the mechanism is now explained:

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-11-nature-armor-stronger-materials.html

Of course there is the Darwin story also: 'They learned gradually how to do it'. No fossils are mentioned to prove that contention.

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This aspect of biology is fascinating. Hummingbirds stop at our ranch before flying over the Gulf of Mexico. Those tiny guys gain just the right amount of weight to go 600 miles over water. Too little or too much and its in the drink!

Here is a discussion of geese and muscle size. What makes the muscles get bigger without exercise, but at the right time?:

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-11-migratory-birds-dont-migrations.html

In developing horses for halter horse competition, they are bred for large muscle mass and come that way without exercise.

4482 views

That is a very interesting article! Thank you for sharing!

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Changes in the monarch genome to help with migration it is assumed:

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2011/11/23/monarch-butterfly-genome-gi...

4448 views

Ravens signal with their beaks, more than most primates do with fingers:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/11/111129112319.htm

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Now it is toads sensing earthquakes:

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-12-toads-earthquakes.html

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The war between cells and invading bacteria. Complex biochemistry wins the battle:

http://www.nature.com/news/septin-proteins-take-bacterial-prisoners-1.9540

In autophagy a cell seals off the bad stuff and digests it.

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