Can anyone here defend Darwinism? (Introduction)

by David Turell @, Tuesday, December 28, 2010, 05:01 (5082 days ago)

This comment is right on. The Darwin theory is so full of holes it is worse than swiss cheese. That doesn't mean that intelligent design is correct. So what do you accept as a reasonable theory? Evolution occured, but how?-http://www.uncommondescent.com/

Can anyone here defend Darwinism?

by satyansh @, Wednesday, December 29, 2010, 16:01 (5081 days ago) @ David Turell

i know i am going off topic but whats your opinion on the big bang theory.

Can anyone here defend Darwinism?

by David Turell @, Saturday, January 01, 2011, 02:58 (5078 days ago) @ satyansh

i know i am going off topic but whats your opinion on the big bang theory.-It's the only theory that fits all the facts we have at present. Penrose, recently, and others earlier have proposed perpetual universes, multiverses, but there is no current way of proving them.

Can anyone here defend Darwinism?

by romansh ⌂ @, Wednesday, December 29, 2010, 23:00 (5080 days ago) @ David Turell

This comment is right on. The Darwin theory is so full of holes it is worse than swiss cheese. That doesn't mean that intelligent design is correct. So what do you accept as a reasonable theory? Evolution occured, but how?
> 
> http://www.uncommondescent.com/-The actual details are beyond my expertese David-But if you are after a serious debate can I suggest creating a similar thread on this particular topic here:-http://www.rationalskepticism.org/creationism/

Can anyone here defend Darwinism?

by Balance_Maintained @, U.S.A., Thursday, December 30, 2010, 11:46 (5080 days ago) @ romansh

This comment is right on. The Darwin theory is so full of holes it is worse than swiss cheese. That doesn't mean that intelligent design is correct. So what do you accept as a reasonable theory? Evolution occured, but how?
> > 
> > http://www.uncommondescent.com/
> 
> The actual details are beyond my expertese David
> 
> But if you are after a serious debate can I suggest creating a similar thread on this particular topic here:
> 
> http://www.rationalskepticism.org/creationism/-I have to thank you for pointing to this link. It was while reading an article on there that I ran across this little tidbit, quoted as as attack against the bible which really struck home to me, particularly the highlighted part.-1 Timothy 6:3-4: "If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and the constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain."

Can anyone here defend Darwinism?

by Balance_Maintained @, U.S.A., Thursday, December 30, 2010, 21:42 (5080 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained


> I have to thank you for pointing to this link. It was while reading an article on there that I ran across this little tidbit, quoted as as attack against the bible which really struck home to me, particularly the highlighted part.
> 
> 1 Timothy 6:3-4: "If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and the constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain."-I guess I was a little short on this post, when I reread it. What I am trying to say here is that on many of the forums, many of the posters, including myself on occasion, tend to relinquish civil discourse in favor of heated arguments over words. AW.com is beyond a doubt one of the few places where that is absolutely not the norm, and it is something that I appreciate immensely. -So, let us enjoy the spirit of fine discourse, without resorting to 'an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and the constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth'. In that spirit, I think I will refrain from topics that are really just opportunities to bash on someone that I disagree with, like our Dawkins' thread or the some of the others floating around. After all, what he thinks does not shape my reality and is of little value to me personally aside from his pure research oriented material. So let him go on talking and writing as he wishes for the atheist cause, and for those foolish enough to read it as Holy Writ, best of luck. For those willing to take the road of religion to its fullest extent of fundamentalism, best of luck. I refuse to get drug into the muck and mud slinging.-I think that AW.com has already set a high standard in this regard, but I think we can go one better and actually teach some of the other forums the only type of lesson worth teaching, namely one that is set by a good example.

Can anyone here defend Darwinism?

by romansh ⌂ @, Friday, December 31, 2010, 18:29 (5079 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained
edited by unknown, Friday, December 31, 2010, 18:46

I think that AW.com has already set a high standard in this regard, but I think we can go one better and actually teach some of the other forums the only type of lesson worth teaching, namely one that is set by a good example.-Actually, regarding Dawkins (a proponent of Evolution) I have little to disagree with him. Now in the God Delusion I think there is much rhetoric. But the science is sound.-But to topic at hand. David posted a link to a creationist site. Fair enough. In my experience when I have looked at these sites in the past, they tend be full of misunderstandings, poor education, lies (by ommission) and propaganda. I have neither the wit nor the energy to chase down another site. Plus when I went to the site, I would have to hunt around for whatever the comment that was "right on".-From what I have read of David's posts he claims the complexity we observe is irreducible. Ken Miller in the video I posted showed otherwise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSg
Then we have comments like In my view Miller is dumb, dumb, dumb from David. I understand personal attacks are unwarranted on this site. But I gather if you are not here to defend yourself they're OK?

Can anyone here defend Darwinism?

by David Turell @, Saturday, January 01, 2011, 03:05 (5078 days ago) @ romansh


> From what I have read of David's posts he claims the complexity we observe is irreducible. Ken Miller in the video I posted showed otherwise.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSg
> Then we have comments like In my view Miller is dumb, dumb, dumb from David. I understand personal attacks are unwarranted on this site. But I gather if you are not here to defend yourself they're OK?-I'm sorry I characterized Miller that way so briefly. My problem is that I've read his book, found it full of errors, some of which I have described in my book, but the dumb,dumb comment was unwarrented. I should have given the current explanation. I am sorry.

Can anyone here defend Darwinism?

by David Turell @, Sunday, January 02, 2011, 01:23 (5077 days ago) @ romansh

From what I have read of David's posts he claims the complexity we observe is irreducible. Ken Miller in the video I posted showed otherwise.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSg
> Then we have comments like In my view Miller is dumb, dumb, dumb from David. I understand personal attacks are unwarranted on this site. But I gather if you are not here to defend yourself they're OK?-I've apologized for the above comment, but I've looked back in Miller's book to see what was one of the things that annoyed me. He discussed lobster 'blood clotting'. He talked about lobster 'blood vessels'. Full disclosure: I worked in the State of Maine Sea and Shores lobster hatchery in Boothby Harbor, on the mechanism of lobster molting; they have to shed that hard exoskeleton to grow. The work produced my senior honors thesis for Bates College graduation. As a biologist Miller should have known that lobsters do not have blood vessels. There are tissue spaces between their muscles and other organs, which are bathed in a 'tissue juice' that is moved about by the movements of the muscles contractions, and is the equivalent of blood. It does have a two part clotting cascade, very simple because it is not under any pressure. On the other hand we use a different set of unrelated proteins and have well over 20+ steps, including complex feedback biochemical loops, with our blood pressure measured in millimeters of mercury, 13 times water. He tries to equate the two circumstances to prove that Behe is wrong and human clotting is not irreducably complex. He does not recognize the property of evolution known as'convergence', which is easily explained by the development of six different types of visual organs. Lobsters can not be compared to humans in the clotting mechanism. Each is very different and developed under different convergent mechanisms.

Can anyone here defend Darwinism?

by David Turell @, Saturday, January 01, 2011, 23:18 (5077 days ago) @ romansh

This comment is right on. The Darwin theory is so full of holes it is worse than swiss cheese. That doesn't mean that intelligent design is correct. So what do you accept as a reasonable theory? Evolution occured, but how?
> > 
> > http://www.uncommondescent.com/-
As of two theists in this discussion group, I like to raise the question of Darwin's gradualist method. Stephen Gould questioned just as much, and I can see why his 'punctuated equilibrium' is a much better fit for evolution:-http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Did_Stephen_Jay_Gould_say_that_fossil_evidence_completely_contradicts_natural_selection

Can anyone here defend Darwinism? high school teachers

by David Turell @, Saturday, January 29, 2011, 23:31 (5049 days ago) @ David Turell

A survey on how high school teachers handle the issue of evolution. Interesting statistics, with about 1/4th of the teachers actively presenting Darwin theory as the truth. Note the comment in the article that the scientists who published the article believe that macroevolution is proven, and should be so stated in classes!-http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-high-school-biology-teachers-reluctant.html

Can anyone here defend Darwinism?

by David Turell @, Monday, April 18, 2011, 17:50 (4971 days ago) @ David Turell


> As of two theists in this discussion group, I like to raise the question of Darwin's gradualist method. Stephen Gould questioned just as much, and I can see why his 'punctuated equilibrium' is a much better fit for evolution:
> 
> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Did_Stephen_Jay_Gould_say_that_fossil_evidence_completely_con... is an organism with 535 million years of stasis:-http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110324153024.htm-http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822%2811%2900277-6?utm_source=ECE001&utm_campaign=&utm_content=&utm_medium=email&bid=Q2JS22F:R3CZ4

Can anyone here defend Darwinism?

by xeno6696 @, Sonoran Desert, Friday, December 31, 2010, 21:04 (5079 days ago) @ David Turell

This comment is right on. The Darwin theory is so full of holes it is worse than swiss cheese. That doesn't mean that intelligent design is correct. So what do you accept as a reasonable theory? Evolution occured, but how?
> 
> http://www.uncommondescent.com/-
Like I said before, however much you hate it, as of 12/31/2010 there is not a better theory in existence. Even when epigenetics takes a more prominent role, as I argued (and you agreed) Natural selection will still be the cause for whatever remains.-Epigenetic mechanisms still do not make a deity more likely: without a causal mechanism, there is no explanatory God. -I haven't said it so adroitly before, but you're chasing ghosts here... the new results coming from the biology sumit is not going to shake the ground nearly as much as you think...-Arguments for an atheistic view don't rely on evolution being passive, but that no mechanism has been devised that adequately explains how God makes these changes.-Until there is a body of evidence that suggests that organismal evolution occurs without a corresponding environmental cause... there is no case for an ID position that relies on material evidence.

--
\"Why is it, Master, that ascetics fight with ascetics?\"

\"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics.\"

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