David Turell has died (General)
by dhw, Thursday, June 19, 2025, 11:38 (113 days ago)
I have just heard the terrible news that David had a fatal heart attack last night.
I will write more when I can.
David Turell, 11 April 1929 - 18 June 2025
by dhw, Friday, June 20, 2025, 12:31 (112 days ago) @ dhw
This website opened on 2 January 2008, and David, a retired physician, joined on 29 March 2008. From then on – apart from holidays and periods of illness – he contributed almost every day to discussions, and then in later years, as the number of contributions dwindled, he posted countless illuminating articles detailing the latest research on a wide variety of subjects.
I can’t remember when or even why we first made contact privately, but it must have been in connection with some kind of unpleasantness on the website, because by 2011, when he sent me his first book, Science vs. Religion, the 500-Year War (published in 2004), it was clear from his handwritten dedication that we had already formed a close friendship. He wrote: “For David: My good friend and co-conspirator”. (I am also a David.)
The book itself was a revelation, because basically it disproved its own title. The focus was on scientific evidence for the existence of God, and even though it was one-sided, the breadth of knowledge and of reading was hugely impressive. However, it had made little or no impact on the wider world, no doubt because David himself was unknown to the wider world – unlike Richard Dawkins, whose book The God Delusion was first published in 2006 and caused a sensation. It had been the one-sidedness of Dawkins’ diatribe that had initially led me to write the Agnostic’s Brief Guide to the Universe – which begins with a critique of Dawkins’ book – and eventually to open the AgnosticWeb.
I mention all this, because it led to an extraordinary development in the relationship between the devout panentheist and the doubting agnostic. I persuaded him to write a sequel to his own book, taking into account new research but also as a counter to Dawkins. Not only did he welcome the idea, but he also asked me – his adversary on the forum – to be his editor. This was a remarkable compliment, and a tribute to an open-mindedness that was not always apparent in his posts! I can honestly say that it was a privilege to work so closely with him. The result was The Atheist Delusion. Science IS Finding God, published in 2013. In my view, it’s a brilliant defence of his faith, cogently argued and once more displaying an astonishing range of knowledge from ancient philosophy to quantum physics.
For followers of this website, it must seem inconceivable that the panentheist and the agnostic could attack each other so fiercely in public and yet remain close friends in private, but I can assure you that the battles and the friendship were both completely genuine. When my wife died in January 2014, David and his wife Susan flew over from Texas to attend the funeral (I live in Somerset, England). We’d spoken on the telephone, as well as kept in regular touch by email, but this was the first time we’d met in person, and this meeting revealed the deep humanity and generosity of his spirit, as well as a sense of humour that had perhaps been hidden by the seriousness of the subjects we discuss on the forum. The bond between us was now firmer than ever. We met again in May 2023, when David and Susan were going on a cruise but made a diversion to London, so that we could meet up and spend a day with them. (“We” includes my daughter Jenny.) By then he was in a wheelchair, but the spirit remained indomitable, and it was a deeply moving experience to see the tenderness with which Susan nursed him, and to feel the warmth that enveloped the four of us as we sat round a table for what we all knew in our hearts would be the last time.
As you can now see, David posted four articles, finishing at 0.52am 19th June (British time, but 6.52pm 18th June US time). I had just sat down to respond to them, as I did every morning, when I received an email from Susan: “David had a heart attack. He’s gone.” That indomitable spirit kept him writing to the very end, in spite of the sufferings that had been inflicted on his body. One can scarcely begin to imagine the shock for Susan, but perhaps the suddenness of the end was the perfect way for David himself to go. Whether his faith will now be rewarded, who knows?
The future of this website is also uncertain, because for the last few years it has only continued through our discussions and the ongoing education provided by David’s research. For the time being, though, I’ll leave it open, if only to preserve the memory of a remarkable man and a dear friend.
David Turell has died
by George Jelliss
, Crewe, Friday, August 29, 2025, 21:33 (42 days ago) @ dhw
My Dear DHW,
It occurred to me tonight for no discernible reason to look at the Agnostic Web,
just to see if it was still going.
Only to find that your long-term colleague David Turell has died last month.
My sympathies for the loss of your friend and to his family.
His contributions were rather too prolific and technical for me to follow,
which rather put me off making regular contributions.
As you may recall my views were in support of Richard Dawkins.
I have been a long time Secular Humanist and my views have not changed much.
In fact I am probably even more antireligious.
My real interests are in mathematics and puzzles.
I don't suppose there would be much point in going over the same old arguments.
I am now 85 and not in the best of health.
I hope you are bearing up.
Best Wishes
George Jelliss
--
GPJ
David Turell has died
by dhw, Sunday, August 31, 2025, 08:24 (40 days ago) @ George Jelliss
My Dear DHW,
It occurred to me tonight for no discernible reason to look at the Agnostic Web,
just to see if it was still going.
Only to find that your long-term colleague David Turell has died last month.
My sympathies for the loss of your friend and to his family.
His contributions were rather too prolific and technical for me to follow,
which rather put me off making regular contributions.
As you may recall my views were in support of Richard Dawkins.
I have been a long time Secular Humanist and my views have not changed much.
In fact I am probably even more antireligious.
My real interests are in mathematics and puzzles.
I don't suppose there would be much point in going over the same old arguments.
I am now 85 and not in the best of health.
I hope you are bearing up.
Best Wishes
George Jelliss
Dear George,
I’m very touched by your letter, and as you have posted it on the forum, I’d like to inform readers that George was among the very first to join in our discussions, and from my point of view his contributions were invaluable precisely because of his support for Richard Dawkins.
From my own position on the agnostic fence, I found Dawkins’ arguments (which spurred me to write the “brief guide” and then to launch this website) every bit as specious as those of his religious opponents. The fact that in recent years, David and I were the only regular contributors has resulted in a drastic narrowing of perspectives, since we were united in our opposition to Dawkins’ dismissal of the God theory as a “delusion”. We have then been left with repetitious arguments over the nature, purpose and methods of a hypothetical God if he exists, but the discussions would have been far richer if you, George, had been there to defend the case against God’s actual existence. However, I can fully appreciate your preference for maths and puzzles, which we know can provide us with definitive answers!
Like you, I have to admit that my views have not changed: I still remain on the fence as regards the existence of a God, but I can respect religious people’s blind faith in a benevolent deity so long as it brings them comfort and inspires them to respect and help others. However, I agree with Dawkins that religious dogma has caused just as much suffering as good. I fully support the principles of your secular humanism, which I feel meet all our human needs apart from that created by our curiosity about the unsolved (insoluble?) mystery of origins. Its rejection of the God theory leaves no alternative to having an equally blind faith in the ability of chance to create life, consciousness and the astonishing complexities that have led to single cells evolving into all the different species, including ourselves. That is a faith I find equally difficult to share.
I’m sorry to hear that you are not in the best of health. I’m even older than you, but am relatively fit and still able to enjoy life without too many restrictions! David was 96, and despite major physical handicaps, his capacity for research and his desire to defend and propagate his beliefs never faded until the very last day of his life. I am in regular contact with his wife, and will pass on your sympathy.
Thank you again for your heart-warming letter.
Wishing you all the very best,
dhw