Chapter 2 of \"Does it Matter:\"--Matter doesn\'t exist! (Humans)

by xeno6696 , Sonoran Desert, Saturday, September 18, 2010, 06:10 (5179 days ago) @ dhw

MATT: Is there anything here in what I've quoted that negates my arguments here? Any other questions/comments? Am I off base?
> 
> I've read all this a couple of times, and am as mystified as you by the argument that if consciousness is a product of the mechanical processes of unconscious matter, it means "that seeing can be causally and logically derived from being seen." As I understand it, the materialist view is that unconscious matter somehow contrived to combine itself in such a way that it gave rise to perception (= seeing) and awareness of perception (= consciousness). How the heck does this mean that being seen is the cause of sight, let alone consciousness? Similarly, "without consciousness, nothing can exist" is an incomprehensible leap of reasoning. Maybe he's cottoned onto the obvious fact that without perception nothing can be perceived, and without consciousness there can be no awareness of perception, but the argument that there is nothing to be perceived until we perceive it means that we create what we see (as you say, back to Berkeley). If he doesn't believe in a material universe independent of our perception, it's a wonder he's survived long enough to write his book.
> 
> Of course the quotes are out of context, and I may not have understood them myself, so my remarks may be grossly unfair, but from what you have told us so far, I'd say your arguments are spot on. My only question to you would be: why bother?-In regards to "why bother," I'm attempting to find a way that my epistemology is flawed. I've mentioned before that I lean materialist on many things, most of this is based on epistemology. The scientific method is unparalleled in finding reliable, actionable knowledge--even though it can sometimes take a hundred years to do it. I apply its principles at my work, and in nearly every conscious thing I do. -I'm pretty strict in what I call knowledge and opinion, and it's possible that many things everyone else considers knowledge, I consider opinion. But I'm trying to reflect to see if I might be wrong; I figure a modern assault on materialism might not be a bad place to begin.

--
\"Why is it, Master, that ascetics fight with ascetics?\"

\"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics.\"