More "miscellany" PART ONE (General)

by dhw, Monday, May 22, 2023, 11:55 (312 days ago) @ David Turell

PART ONE

THE HUMAN BRAIN

DAVID: […] There cannot be complexification if no excess neurons exist. As you note, our 315,000-year-old-brain is still complexifying with its excess neurons.

dhw: My point is that they are not “excess”! I don’t share your vision of millions of neurons lying around for thousands of years doing absolutely nothing until a new requirement suddenly calls them into action.

DAVID: But that is exactly what our 315,000 years-old shows. Much more complex than previous forms, and still handling all new problems.

Of course they are more complex, since all the new problems are solved through ongoing complexification! But you keep insisting that your God planted EXCESS neurons in our brains 315,000 years ago, i.e. that they were not used then. I propose that the neurons which (for unknown reasons) were added 315,000 years ago have not just been lying around doing nothing for thousands of years, but were used then and have been used continuously since then. As in the past: new neurons respond to a new requirement, the same neurons complexify, past brains then require more new neurons to meet some new requirement, whereas ours have enhanced powers of complexification. No “excess”, no “oversize”, and response. not anticipation.

Cellular intelligence: the cancer problem

DAVID: This is obvious evidence of cellular intelligence in cancer cells. These are rogue cells who have taken over control of their own destiny and have thrown off any influence by standardized control mechanisms.

dhw: If we have evidence of destructive intelligence (so intelligence is possible), there seems no reason to assume that cells with constructive intelligence can’t exist. Why would your all-powerful and all-knowing God only design the nasty ones? (This even smacks of a free-for-all, since you must find it hard to believe that your God would design baddies in the first place.)

You have not commented on this important evidence of cellular intelligence, or on its implications. If your God can create nasty (“rogue”) autonomous intelligence, why do you think he can’t create "nice" autonomous intelligence?

DAVID: […] dhw invokes cellular intelligence to cause speciation. But we see that ordinary cells are tightly controlled in their activities.

dhw: Cells have to be tightly controlled if species are to survive as species! But if you believe in common descent, you also have to believe cells must have a degree of flexibility if they are to cope with or exploit new conditions by restructuring themselves or by your God restructuring them.

dhw: Adaptation and innovation are not rogue!!! Of course cells communicate. I‘m not going to guess which cells intelligently cooperate with which, but this cooperation HAS to happen in speciation, whether your God dabbled it, or the cells did it themselves.

DAVID: Speciation occurs if the germ cells of male and female have large DNA changes. You only know of epigenetics to cause that, no speciation occurring.

Nobody knows how speciation occurs, but cooperation has to happen, whether your God dabbles it or the cells do their own self-dabbling.

Role of the centromere

DAVID: Buehler is a hero because he supports your wished for desired intelligent cell. You can't recognize your own biases. ID specifically views him as anti-God.

dhw: […] I don’t see why quoting scientific support for a theory should be called bias. How does it differ from your constant references to ID? […]

DAVID: I am certainly biased toward designed cells who are following instructions in their genomes.

You are biased against cells that have autonomous intelligence, so there’s not much point in moaning about bias. I suggest you focus on the arguments.


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