More "miscellany" PARTS ONE & TWO (General)

by David Turell @, Friday, February 24, 2023, 17:01 (399 days ago) @ dhw

Under: Our neocortex appears de novo

DAVID: Now you have tossed out your favorite 'descent with modification'. The important gaps, as such are discussed by Darwinist scientists. They are all really de novo: the Cambrian, human pyramidal neurons, mini proteins, and more: de novo genes.

dhw: Thank you for confirming my comment above. All innovations entail gaps. How does that “toss out” descent with modification? If our starting point was bacteria, every part of us was once an innovation. The continuity is provided – whether through your God or cellular intelligence or random mutations – by new structures formed by existing cells. And you still haven’t told us why you think your God is incapable of designing cells that can restructure themselves.

The bold is a weird flight of fancy. Descent with modification means there is a past form which was modified. NO GAP!

Early giant stars

DAVID: first the Big Bang and then an evolutionary process to produce the current universe. This is the first instance of evidence God prefers to create by evolutionary processes. The primordial Earth evolved from a dust disc around the Sun. First life helped evolve the Earth into its present form. And finally, life evolved. Strong evidence God prefers to evolve His creations.

dhw: In the name of the AgnosticWeb, I shall simply point out that it’s perfectly obvious that the universe and life evolved. Whether there is a God who created and ran evolution is a matter of opinion.

DAVID: Real point: God prefers to evolve all creations.

dhw: Not the “real” point! We have no dispute over the theory that the universe and life evolved! The “real” point is that we don’t know how or why they evolved, and your God theory is a matter of opinion, not fact!

Of faith with facts to support it.


Bioelectric cell controls

QUOTE: We all recognise a regulation-issue human or chicken or fish when we see one. But how do the cells in a developing embryo know where to go to make that body, rendering all those fingers and beaks and fins in the proper place and dimensions?

DAVID: note the two bolds pointing out instructions and coding, two immaterial actions of minds. There must be a designing mind!!!

dhw: For me the complexities of the cell are a major factor against atheism. (I shan’t repeat the factors against theism.) What is not clear to me, though, is how existing patterns – which must be repeated if a species is to survive – can change in order to invent eyes and ears, fingers, beaks and fins, and species which never existed before. Your theory is that your God provided the relevant instructions and codings, either through preprogramming every change 3.8 billion years ago, or through personal ad hoc dabbling. But see the next entry.

Chlamydia

DAVID: either Chlamydia invented the protective molecule or it appeared by luck. Would God have been involved? I don't know. All unknowns.

dhw: Although this is one special case, you have provided an excellent summary of all our discussions on evolutionary innovation:
Shapiro: the cells did it. Darwin: random mutations did it. Turell: God did it. Dhw: I don’t know what did it.

Great summary


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