More "miscellany" PART ONE (General)

by David Turell @, Thursday, February 16, 2023, 17:28 (406 days ago) @ dhw

PART ONE

An early form

dhw: […] His ability to handle changing conditions does not explain why you think he chose not to control those conditions. Please tell us.

DAVID: I've told you!! He can design for any conditions.

dhw: That is not a reason for him to have restricted his scope of design to whatever suited the conditions he did not control.

Where did you get that restriction??? ALL conditions presented no problem.

Early humans

dhw: Since you believe that your God’s system consisted of 99% “failed experiments”, will you accept that the earlier hominins and homos were successful experiments, with which your God gradually improved on his 1% of successes as he went along?

DAVID: Each successful until they disappeared.

dhw: Yes.Thank you. Would you agree that non-bird dinosaurs were successful until they disappeared?

DAVID: Yes.

dhw: We are making real progress. If we adopt our shared theory that your God experimented, we now have life forms which did not lead to us plus our food (e.g. 99% of dinosaurs), but which you deem to have been successful, i.e. they were not mistakes, or failed experiments. That is the essence of all my alternative theories. Your God WANTED the vast variety of living forms – not as “absolute requirements” for us and our food, but as an end in themselves. There are no “mistakes”. He created what he wanted to create.

Of course, God created what He wished to, but all with a purposeful plan in mind. The vast bush of life is our current food supply. We are currently considering insects!!! WE do not share the same view of God experimenting. Mine is God attempting to create new forms prepared to adapt to environmental conditions commonly fail to survive (99.9%). God's attempts are His form of experimentation, not what dh w wishes.


Great oxidation event came earlier

DAVID: God made the Cambrian without predecessors. Natual evolution cannot do that! Remember Darwin's worries about this.

dhw: If your God exists, you have him waiting till the Cambrian provided him with the right conditions, and then he fulfilled his sole purpose (designing our ancestors and our foods) from scratch. No need then for what you must regard as pre-Cambrian 100% mistakes and failed experiments.

But it all happened as a history of Gods actions or inactions.


Epigenetics

DAVID: Studies in simple organisms do not carry over to advanced complex forms. These are natural mechanisms. God, as designer, does not pose these problems, except belief

dhw: Unless your God operates on every individual organism, there has to be a mechanism which causes innovations and passes them on. Nobody knows what it is. God is not a mechanism. And so as I see it, there are two separate problems. 1) What is the mechanism? 2) How did it originate? Your God is a possible answer to the second question, but as you say, that poses the problem of belief – a problem shared by those who think the mechanism must have originated by chance.

DAVID: God handles all. God has His mechanism of design.

dhw: Not clear. Do you mean your God designed the unknown mechanism which enables organisms to adapt and innovate without his intervention, or do you mean he has to operate the mechanism for every individual organism, or 3.8 billion years ago he designed the mechanism with instructions for every adaptation and innovation throughout the whole future of life on Earth?

I believe God provided simple adaptive mechanisms that we all know exist in all organisms.


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