More "miscellany" PART TWO (General)

by David Turell @, Wednesday, December 21, 2022, 18:39 (464 days ago) @ dhw

PART TWO

The immensity of the universe

dhw: The universe is believed to be about 13.8 billion years old. The Earth is about 4.5 billion years old. It is estimated that there are some 2000,000,000,000 galaxies in the universe we know. The universe we know is said to consist of 95% dark matter and energy, which we know little about. And yet Denton knows that every galaxy, including all those that would have come and gone in the 9+ thousand million years before our planet arrived, and all 2 trillion existing galaxies have determined the conditions that enable us to light a fire. Is this science?[/i]

DAVID: Denton has given us an answer to satisfy dhw's question. I can state the universe is at its necessary size.

dhw: You and Denton can state it as often as you like, but please don’t tell me that science has proven that every galaxy that exists and that ever existed was and is absolutely necessary for the existence of life on Earth, let alone that your God could not have designed us humans if he hadn’t designed 2000,000,000,000 other galaxies plus all those that disappeared before ours.

DAVID: We've decided God used a messy evolutionary process to produce us. Now dhw views the universe as messy also. God made the universe start, evolved it, set the Earth in a safe spot of His favorite galaxy, the Milky Way, evolved the Milky Way and the Earth, then invented life and evolved us. Therefore, God prefers to evolve His creations. Even if a human thinks them messy.

dhw: It’s you who keep using the term “messy”! I simply question your basic premise that your God specially designed every life form and every star, and that he did so for the sole purpose of designing us and our food. However, I have offered you three theistic theories to explain all the dead ends. You chose experimentation, and used terms like “mistakes”, “failed experiments”, “wrong choices” and “mess”. I have pointed out that 2 trillion existing galaxies plus all the galaxies that must have become extinct before the current number can hardly have been necessary for the design of one species (plus food) on one planet in one galaxy.

How do you know that all the galaxies are not necessary? Denton gave us an answer. Her is an M.D. and a Ph.D. in genetics. Above you asked if he uses science (now bolded). You can bet he does.

dhw: And so presumably you think the evolution of the universe is just as messy as the evolution of life on Earth. If you think your God prefers to make mistakes and conduct “failed experiments” and to use a messy way of designing what he wants to design, who am I to argue with you? Your theory fits the history of the universe and the history of life on Earth.

Don't presume anything. God's evolution of a physical universe has no known errors, nor does the fine-tuned-for-life Earth have any errors. That God evolves His creations seems apparent. But evolving material processes as universe and Earth is not the same as evolving life, in which some forms can fail. You have always raised the issue of why evolve when direct creation is so much more direct. WE are stuck with the conclusion, God chose to evolve.


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