More "miscellany" PART TWO (General)

by David Turell @, Friday, December 02, 2022, 21:46 (483 days ago) @ dhw

PART TWO

dhw: As for cellular intelligence being as “large” as God’s mind (if God exists), I do not for one moment believe that cells could create a universe, or all the conditions for life, or even their original selves (that is why I allow for God as the designer of the “mechanism”).

DAVID: Thank you for 'allowing' God.

dhw: “Allowing for “ something means taking it into consideration as a factor not to be excluded. Once again, you are ignoring the point under discussion. How could cellular intelligence be as “large” as God’s mind?

The complexity of the biochemical designs requires using a mind like God's. After all it originally came from God's mind!


Immunity system complexity: defenses in bacteria

DAVID: Kindly God gave us the privilege of life, be thankful. Most bacteria and viruses do nothing of the sort and are generally beneficial.

dhw: If your delightfully human, “kindly” God exists, of course I am thankful for the wonderful gift of life. But try as you might to minimize the horrors caused by murderous viruses and bacteria, you still can’t explain why he would have deliberately designed them.

DAVID: I've explained His deliberate design. It is when bacteria and viruses end up accidently in the wrong places that troubles occur.

dhw: I’m surprised that all bacteria and viruses were designed only to do good things and your kindly God had no idea that they might turn nasty by accidentally going to places where he hadn’t meant them to go.

Why did God supply immune systems? He recognized bugs might get in wrong places.

dhw: Clearly there was some sort of failure in his planning, and if – as you have told us – he tried hard to prepare solutions to the problems they created but again often failed, his loss of control somehow doesn’t quite fit in with your belief that he is always in total control (apart from the environment, where he relies on luck to provide him with the conditions he needs to fulfil his one and only purpose.) (See “ocean currents”).

Plese finally open your mind to everything that happens is God's planned intention.


Bad bugs teach us

DAVID: huge article with most of it in tall weeds of complex biochemical interactions precipitated by the bugs, which teach us about how our cells work!!!. God's wry trick to let us learn about His intracellular design's?

dhw: The whole article is devoted to the ingenious ways in which bad bugs work out how to outwit the goodies. Nothing about them accidentally ending up in the wrong places. You seem to be suggesting that your kindly God designed them to kill us so that we could learn how clever his designs are.

God knew they might cause probelms, thus potent immune systems!!!


Evolution of Earth: ocean currents

DAVID: these currents would have affected life in the oceans. Similar to climate these ocean currents ran on their own, not under God's intimate controls.

dhw: A problem you have struggled with before. All environmental processes affect and have affected life in all parts of the world and throughout all of life's history. If your God does not control them, it can only mean that speciation – which has to be able to cope with new conditions – depends on circumstances beyond your God’s control. A far cry from the detailed planning and total control you like to attribute to your all-powerful version of God.

DAVID: God controls the design of new species with the ability to adapt to climate changes. Have you forgotten everyone can adapt? Another invented mountain out of a mole hill!!

dhw: I‘m pleased to hear that you have now agreed at last to the theory that speciation takes place IN RESPONSE to environmental change and not in anticipation of it.

Not at all. Stop twisting everything. I clearly said existing organisms are able to adapt. They die if unable to adapt or God speiates them to survive better.

Brain changes

QUOTE: This is what neuroscientists call experience-induced brain plasticity—like the brain changes that occur when you learn a new language or master a new musical instrument.

DAVID: a perfect example of brain plasticity responding to new requirements. in other requirements large changes have been found. The brain is enabled to respond to all diverse demands. Just as new species arrive prepared to adapt to all new future requirements.

dhw: You have grasped the principle and then inverted it! In the quote, brains change in response to learning. Fathers’ brains change in response to their parental involvement. Changes are made possible by brain plasticity which RESPONDS to new requirements. "New species arise" when organisms change in RESPONSE to new requirements. Not in anticipation of new requirements. It is the ABILITY to change which is present before the changes take place!

We are still opposed. God prepares new species for future requirements.


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