More "miscellany" PART ONE (General)

by David Turell @, Thursday, December 01, 2022, 18:12 (483 days ago) @ dhw

PART ONE

DAVID: Don't you recognize evolution must have failures? You approach is totally irrational.

dhw: Apart from your irrational belief that your God created species in preparation for new conditions before those conditions even existed, you also believe irrationally that an all-powerful God with one purpose would deliberately design countless organisms that had no connection with his one purpose. And “all evolutions advance from failed experiments” but “no experimentation ever needed”. And you think my objections are irrational!

Just answered in the other thread.


Viruses fight bat immunity (dhw: And bats fight viruses’ immunity!)
Also Viruses fight with CRISPR

DAVID: […] your very human suggestion that God give species the ability to speciate on their own, means God has to implant the complete knowledge of how to do it in great detail. Why bother? It is obvious it is simpler to just do it.

dhw: God completely planting the knowledge of how to do it…is YOUR theory […] please explain why it is “simpler” for your God to give every organism detailed instructions for every problem, adaptation, innovation throughout the past, present and future (with no explanation for the countless failures) than it would be for him to provide a single mechanism by means of which they would make their own efforts to work out their own solutions etc. (thus explaining the countless failures).

DAVID: […] secondhand design makes no sense.

dhw: It makes perfect sense IF your God wanted to see what organisms would design if they were given the ability to do their own designing. And what’s more, this would get you out of the totally irrational belief that your all-powerful and “kindly” God deliberately designed not only the countless failures which had no connection with his one and only purpose, but also the murderous viruses and bacteria which cause so much suffering (see Part Two).

An amazingly might if. Designed disappearance is not a failure. See other thread.


Bacterial intelligence: stress responses (Animals)

DAVID: The abilities of bacteria to survive as single cells involves extra capacities given by God's design. In multicellular forms survival is not an immediate issue. You are comparing apples to elephants.

dhw: So your God gave single cells autonomous abilities, but when they formed communities he took these abilities away, and even today we have intelligent individuals doing their own thing, but also combining and apparently turning into automatons merely following your God’s instructions. And what makes you think that these intelligent cells did/do NOT form communities in order to improve their chances of survival? Why else do they cooperate?

DAVID: Cells in a multicellular organism have top-down controls. what cell communities do you think are independent to take special actions??

dhw: You have completely ignored the points I have made above, as well as the question I have asked you. This is all part of the dodging technique that leads to endless repetitions. Please stop it. As regards your own question, EVERY part of the body (cell community) has its special function, but also depends on cooperation with other parts of the body (cell communities). Hence the vast network of communicating cells. Your God may have created the mechanisms, but they function independently of him. This is in contrast to your theory that cell communities are all dependent on different sets of instructions preprogrammed by your God 3.8 billion years ago, or popped into them telepathically when the need arises. I don’t know if that answers your question, because I don’t really understand it. Now perhaps you will answer my questions.

Of course all cells work in concert in a body or the body would disappear. I see the 'cooperation' in a different sense than you do. You see some imagined form of independent action while I view the cells as tightly programmed to work together


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