More "miscellany" PART ONE (General)

by David Turell @, Wednesday, November 30, 2022, 17:33 (485 days ago) @ dhw

PART ONE

DAVID: This approach is simply speciation without God.

dhw: Instead of your God conducting countless operations to prepare organisms for conditions which did not yet exist, I have him as the possible designer of a mechanism that would enable organisms to speciate by RESPONDING to new conditions. You also have him designing 90+% of them to fail when the next set of new conditions comes into existence. I have him possibly designing the mechanism (cellular intelligence) which either can or can’t cope. In this way, it is the organisms themselves which fail, as opposed to God specially and illogically designing failures.

Don't you recognize evolution must have failures? You approach is totally irrational.


Viruses fight bat immunity (dhw: And bats fight viruses’ immunity!)
Also Viruses fight with CRISPR

DAVID: […] your very human suggestion that God give species the ability to speciate on their own, means God has to implant the complete knowledge of how to do it in great detail. Why bother? It is obvious it is simpler to just do it.

dhw: God completely planting the knowledge of how to do it…is YOUR theory […] please explain why it is “simpler” for your God to give every organism detailed instructions for every problem, adaptation, innovation throughout the past, present and future (with no explanation for the countless failures) than it would be for him to provide a single mechanism by means of which they would make their own efforts to work out their own solutions etc. (thus explaining the countless failures).

DAVID: There is no such thing as a 'simple mechanism' for making very complex designs, taking a giant enzyme molecule as an example. It would take the equivalent of God's whole mind.

dhw: I did not say a “simple” mechanism. You have misread “single” for “simple”. According to you there is only one single mechanism that does all the designing, and that is the intelligence of your God. I am proposing that your God may have created a form of intelligence far more limited than his own (e.g. it often fails) but highly productive all the same. (More under “birth canal”.)

Sorry for my miss-reading, but simple or single secondhand design makes no sense.


Bacterial intelligence: stress responses (Animals)

dhw: You left out your comment that “Bacteria appeared with the ability to edit their own DNA.” That is why the heading is “Bacterial intelligence” and that is why you wanted to know the origin of the abilities I have described, although apparently today they don’t have those abilities because God does everything for them, which presumably includes the ability to edit their own DNA, which they have lost since Saturday.

DAVID: Sorry. I was referring improperly to multicellular cells and thoughtlessly ignoring what bacteria do.

dhw: Thank you, but what makes you think that single cells have these abilities and then lose them when they form cooperative communities?

DAVID: The abilities of bacteria to survive as single cells involves extra capacities given by God's design. In multicellular forms survival is not an immediate issue. You are comparing apples to elephants.

dw: So your God gave single cells autonomous abilities, but when they formed communities he took these abilities away, and even today we have intelligent individuals doing their own thing, but also combining and apparently turning into automatons merely following your God’s instructions. And what makes you think that these intelligent cells did/do NOT form communities in order to improve their chances of survival? Why else do they cooperate?

Cells in a multicellular organism have top-down controls. what cell communities do you think are independent to take special actions??


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