More "miscellany" PART ONE (General)

by dhw, Tuesday, November 29, 2022, 12:31 (485 days ago) @ David Turell

PART ONE

Human evolution: specific DNA sequences

DAVID:[…] It is just as logical to see the complex designs, recognize a designer, who will design for current and future use.

dhw: We are not talking about recognizing a designer but about the sequence of the changes. And of course the changes will be used to cope with current conditions, and will continue to be used long into the future (some species have survived for umpteen million years).

DAVID: My side is talking about designer who runs evolution and prepares species for future problems.

I know. And I am suggesting that the preparation for future problems consists in the mechanisms for change which will come into play when those future problems arise, as opposed to your God making the changes before the problems arise. For instance, pre-whale legs would have turned into flippers when, for whatever reason, the organism began to inhabit a new environment – not in preparation for its entry into the new environment. Pre-human backs and legs would have straightened as a result of living at ground level, not in preparation for it.

Viruses fight bat immunity (dhw: And bats fight viruses’ immunity!)
Also Viruses fight with CRISPR

DAVID: As usual you are presenting a hodgepodge of my comments out of context. My human level of designing is not at God's level, but your very human suggestion that God give species the ability to speciate on their own, means God has to implant the complete knowledge of how to do it in great detail. Why bother? It is obvious it is simpler to just do it.

dhw: All the comments are strictly within the context of your views on design, including your direct contradiction of yourself on the subject of experimentation (see the “evolution” thread). I have no idea why you regard the granting of autonomy to be “very human”, and it means the exact opposite of God completely planting the knowledge of how to do it! That is YOUR theory – that he has preprogrammed organisms or given them complete instructions as and when needed! My theory is that he has given them the intelligence to work out the solutions for themselves!

DAVID: My answer is the same as in the other thread: "The best example to discuss is dinosaurs. […]

Your repetition is totally irrelevant and is dealt with on the other thread. Now please explain why it is “simpler” for your God to give every organism detailed instructions for every problem, adaptation, innovation throughout the past, present and future (with no explanation for the countless failures) than it would be for him to provide a single mechanism by means of which they would make their own efforts to work out their own solutions etc. (thus explaining the countless failures).

Bacterial intelligence: stress responses (Animals)

QUOTE: “… bacteria improve their estimation accuracy and make better informed decisions about how to respond to the environment. In other words, bacteria exploit a well-known principle in decision theory: the wisdom of crowds."

dhw: […] Every word seems to me to support the theory that single cells have the autonomous intelligence not only to fight their own battle for survival but also to pool their autonomous intelligences by forming communities. The process leads logically to all subsequent developments in evolution as intelligent cell communities deploy an almost unbounded “variety of strategies to thrive in fluctuating environments”.

DAVID: In bold you have skipped over the origin of those abilities when bacteria appeared.

dhw: My apologies. I forgot to mention that cellular intelligence may have been designed by your God. I’m delighted, however, that you now appear to accept that single cells have autonomous intelligence. We are making great progress, as confirmed below: :-)

DAVID: I never think single cells are free to do whatever they wish. They are automaticly programmed by their God-given DNA ;-)

dhw: You left out your comment that “Bacteria appeared with the ability to edit their own DNA.” That is why the heading is “Bacterial intelligence” and that is why you wanted to know the origin of the abilities I have described, although apparently today they don’t have those abilities because God does everything for them, which presumably includes the ability to edit their own DNA, which they have lost since Saturday.

DAVID: Sorry. I was referring improperly to multicellular cells and thoughtlessly ignoring what bacteria do.

Thank you, but what makes you think that single cells have these abilities and then lose them when they form cooperative communities?


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