More "miscellany" PART TWO (General)

by David Turell @, Wednesday, November 23, 2022, 18:17 (6 days ago) @ dhw



dhw: Do you see what I meant on the “evolution” thread concerning the endless repetition of your dodges? Firstly, we’re not talking of “need”. The question of purpose concerns what your God wants. Secondly, the argument is not about the present ecosystem but about your irrational insistence that your God had to design all the extinct dead end systems of the past because although they had nothing to do with his one and only purpose, they were all necessary for him to fulfil his one and only purpose. If you stop repeating your dodges, I can stop pointing them out!

They are not dodges but represent that you do not think about God as I do. Everything on Earth now and all past history of evolution is God's work. We were evolved. Dead ends happened as in any evolutionary processes. Your illogical analysis of reality as it relates to God's actions is flawed at all times.


DAVID: Adler and I agree about your complaint re' Adler. You know nothing about Adler. His discussions support my theories.

shw: I don’t recall complaining about Adler. I only know what you tell me, which is that our uniqueness provides evidence of God’s existence (which applies to all life’s complexities – hence ID), and that he does not cover your irrational theories about evolution which we spend so much time repeating.

BUT HE DOES. He analyzes evolution as natural, or GOD guided. Concluding natural would not have produced us, then God did it.

Horseshoe crab eye lens

dhw: […] the greater the variety of natural wonders and biological complexities you introduce us to, the more puzzling becomes your theory that they were all specially designed as necessities for your God to fulfil what you say was his one and only purpose: to design us and our food. […] Just like the “dog eat dog” aspect of history, the vast variety of designs extant and extinct seems to me to be far more characteristic of a free-for-all than of a single plan with a single purpose (us plus food) – and a free-for-all does not, of course, exclude God as the designer of the mechanisms that produce the vast variety.

DAVID: Your desired free-for-all exists the current dog-eat-dog reality. If you read Adler, you would see many cogent reasons humans are proof of God who produced us.

dhw: You just won’t stop dodging, will you? The discussion is not about Adler’s proof of your God’s existence, but about your God’s goal(s) and methods!

And Adler is my support!!! He analyzes evolution as natural, or GOD guided. Concluding natural would not have produced us, then God did it.


DAVID: Remember Bechly: most major fossil finds are in the past. The Cambrian gap remains at 410,000 years. The new forms would have needed many millions of years to evolve 'naturally'.

dhw: By “naturally” you obviously mean without God’s personal direction, or by chance.

No, I'm referencing the 'timing problem', described here many times. Any progress to new species by new natural mutations will always take millions of years

dhw: This objection is covered by the intelligent cell theory. ALL fossil finds are in the past once we’ve said goodbye to today! You have, however, kindly told us about a new one:

New Edicarean fossils; new on with meal (dhw: should this be new one?)

QUOTES: the researchers were able to confirm the slug-like organism, known as Kimberella, had a mouth and a gut and digested food the same way modern animals do.
"'Ediacara biota really are the oldest fossils large enough to be visible with your naked eyes, and they are the origin of us and all animals that exist today. These creatures are our deepest visible roots,"

DAVID: compared to the Cambrian this one had a gut, no eyes or legs, so the new finding enforces the phenotypic gap.

dhw: As always, I’m grateful for your integrity in showing us these articles. Despite your belief that “a major find of fossils to fill the Cambrian gap is very unlikely at this late stage of fossil hunting”, here we have two new pre-Cambrian ones. I’d have thought mouth, gut and modern digestive system would count as a major link between pre-Cambrian life forms and the animals that exist today. This contradicts your statement that we and our foods are descended directly from Cambrian life forms which had no predecessors. On the other hand, it confirms your belief that we are descended from pre-Cambrian life forms going back all the way to Archaea. The trouble is you can’t have it both ways.

A mouth and gut with anus are all this animal is. No eyes, no appendages, no heart with circulatory system, no renal system, no brain etc. The Cambrians had those items and more. I accept this tiny step toward us in the future, And accept your apology above: "On the other hand, it confirms your belief that we are descended from pre-Cambrian life forms going back all the way to Archaea." Your contradiction is your illogical analysis of how God works and should work. I have one way, my way.

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