More "miscellany" PARTS ONE & TWO (General)

by dhw, Friday, November 11, 2022, 12:29 (504 days ago) @ David Turell

Horizontal gene transfer

dhw: In my free-for-all theory, I use the appearance of every life form, including those that had no connection with humans or their food, as evidence of his desires (if he exists). Sounds very reasonable to me.

DAVID: Again, a very humanized form of a God.

Why do you consider my “humanized” guesses to be more “humanized” than the long list of your “humanized” guesses (see yesterday’s post)?

Not prepared to stop an asteroid

DAVID: For the nth time, my God is never in any form or thought human. He is pure purpose to create what He thinks should be created.

dhw: So although you are certain that he enjoys and is interested, and probably has thought patterns and emotions like ours, he does/is/has none of these things. And yet you think he thinks he should create sapiens and our food, and he should create countless life forms, ecosystems, lifestyles, strategies, natural wonders that have/had no connection with us and our food, and he has his reasons. Try this, then, as a theory: God is pure purpose to create what he thinks should be created: a free-for-all. And he has his reasons. Satisfied?

DAVID: You can be satisfied. Stay with a God who is comfortable for you. Don't impose Him on us.

I am merely repeating your own defence for imposing your own God on us, even though – unlike me – you can find no reason for him acting in the way you say he does.

Evolution: not always simple to complex

DAVID: if a designer is involved, He can take any direction He wishes, just like the jump in Cambrian forms. And yes, to forestall the obvious, this jumping around suggests free-for-all if your thinking is skewed toward a human-like God.

Thank you for your support of the free-for-all theory. It does not make God any more “human-like” than a God who would care so much about us that he would step in to help us if we were threatened by an asteroid (just one of your many humanizations).

Deep sea extremophiles

DAVID: living forms are so adaptable they can take any form they wish to survive in specific environments.

I like this. They take any form they wish, as opposed to what follows:

DAVID: They may start out much more like other simple forms and then speciate into the permanent adaptation, remembering I think God speciates.

OOPS! They take any form they wish, but God gives them their form. I prefer your first version!

Toxoplasma

dhw: You agree that the dead ends were only designed for the life forms that did not lead to us, so how can they possibly have been “required” for the fulfilment of his one only goal to design us and our food? […]

DAVID: Answered innumerable times. As now the dead ends are the ecosystems of food supply required then. Please try to remember all life needs a food supply, always!

That is what I keep telling you! The dead-end food was for then, not for now! If your God deliberately designed countless life forms and food supplies that had no connection with us and our food supplies, how can they have been “required” for us?

Supergenes

DAVID: Time has always been a factor in creating new designs. 410,000 years is the current gap. and supergenes from God is a great answer.

dhw: If God exists, I agree, and use of supergenes “from God” by intelligent cells “from God” would indeed be a great answer.

DAVID: As usual I have to answer God instructed the cells how to use supergenes.

I know. These are the individual instructions formulated 3.8 billion years ago for every new design etc, or individually planted in every cell/cell community as soon as it encounters new conditions, problems etc.

Octopus brain

QUOTE: "This live-imaging technique allowed the team to observe stem cells called neural progenitor cells, and how they are organized."

DAVID: for me it is just another example of genome convergence.

dhw: For me this is yet more evidence of the vital role stem cells play in evolution. My science dictionary offers the following definition: “An undifferentiated cell, particularly in an embryo, capable of unlimited division and of producing daughter cells that develop into different cell types, which in turn give rise to different tissues and organs.”
Maybe their versatility extends far beyond the confines of the embryo, and they implement the heritable changes, adaptations and innovations that arise when organisms encounter and respond to new conditions.

DAVID: The germ cells are where the action has to be in creating new species. Of course, stem cells play major roles in species adaptations.

As far as I know (correct me if I’m wrong), germ cells are responsible for reproduction, i.e. they would reproduce changes, not make them.

Ant farming

QUOTE: Biologists regard the cultivation of fungi by ants as true agriculture long predating human agriculture because it meets four criteria: the ants plant the fungus, care for it, harvest it and depend on it for food. (dhw: Later they add shelter.)

DAVID: We should not be surprised at any ant activity.

I’m only surprised that anyone should fail to recognize that ants are highly intelligent organisms, but I suppose you will tell us that your God popped in to give them farming lessons.


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