More "miscellany" PART TWO (General)

by David Turell @, Saturday, September 24, 2022, 18:13 (552 days ago) @ dhw

PART TWO

Shapiro

DAVID: Whales evolved circulation brain nets as an adaptation, but are still whales!! See today's entry.

dhw: Then it is a moot point whether such adaptations constitute speciation or not. (Adaptations are not novelties.)

It all depends on how you use 'novelties' as a theoretical concept.


Less frogs, more mosquitos

DAVID: Everything on Earth is a creation/result from God.

dhw: If God exists, and created the universe and life, then of course everything on Earth is the RESULT of his work, but that does mean he individually designed every “dead-end” organism….etc...

Dead ends ARE THE RESULTS of His designs. Stop contradicting yourself


Whale changes
Head circulation is modified:
https://www.sciencemagazinedigital.org/sciencemagazine/library/item/23_september_2022/4...

QUOTE: "The changes were so radical that evolutionary selection pressures seem insurmountable. Yet, the transitions did occur […] (David’s bold)

DAVID: land mammals dove into various waters fifty million years ago to make whales and dolphins. "Evolutionary insurmountable pressures" is Darwin-speak for the necessary scramble to find enough mutations to do the job. A designer fits the bill. It not just whales and dolphins, all aquatic mammals come from land.

DAVID:[…] The fact this all happened in a short period sure smells of design.

dhw: I am always sceptical when you talk of “a short period”. Alarm bells also ring when you talk of Darwin-speak and mutations. We agreed long ago that we do not accept randomness. Re the time, please look at this:

Ocean Giants | Going Aquatic: Cetacean Evolution | Nature | PBS

www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/ocean-giants-going-aquatic-cetacean-evolution/7577/

QUOTE: The earliest whales that we think were fully aquatic, that is, they never left the water, are found around 40 million years ago, during the middle Eocene That means that the transition from terrestrial animals to fully aquatic animals took about 12 million years.[/b] (dhw bold)

dhw: I do not regard 12 million years as a short time, and I suggest that it allows ample time for intelligent cells to make the transitions. If, as you propose, your God performed operations on individual life forms, I wonder why it took him 12 million years to finish off the design which – being all-powerful and all-knowing – he presumably had in mind from the start.

You totally missed the point. All aquatic mammals left land at the same time interval. As if all designed at once. As for the time period, I've demonstrated God evolves all of His creations. Evolution takes time.


Loss of genes

QUOTE: "But in reality, the majority of gene losses during evolution are likely to be neutral, with no fitness consequences for the organism…”
"The reason is that evolutionary gene losses often occur after some change in the environment or behaviors makes a gene less necessary.

dhw: When you first raised the subject two years ago, this was my explanation. It’s sheer common sense, though as usual you opposed it:

Wednesday September 2 2020
dhw: Loss of genes does not mean that every single organism was planned in advance with its code implanted in the very first living cells. It simply means that as evolution progressed, and more and more species evolved, each new species would have jettisoned those inherited genes which were no longer needed. Hair genes evolved as protection against the climate, but what would be the point of your ancestors’ hair genes if you lived in the water and no longer needed hair? Just like organisms themselves, genes are subject to the process of natural selection.

I just like seeing Behe supported


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