More "miscellany" PART ONE (General)

by dhw, Tuesday, September 20, 2022, 11:26 (555 days ago) @ David Turell

PART ONE

Brain evolution

DAVID: We can only discuss size not organization. The human brain has five layers of specialized neurons in the prefrontal cortex. There is evidence, from its current massive use, that it can be used, as is, forever. [...]

dhw: I am not denying that it can be used as it is forever! I am pointing out that the additional cells in pre-sapiens and in sapiens would have been needed when they first appeared, as opposed to their being provided for no special purpose in anticipation of conditions that did not yet exist.

DAVID: But that is exactly not how or brain can be interpreted. If it arrived useful forever, that means it arrived in anticipation of that use, far more useful than needed at its arrival.

I don’t know how often we need to go over this. In your version, your God operates on a group of sleeping Moroccans to give them the additional cells, along with the message: “You ain’t gonna need these for the next 2100 years.” In my version, the Moroccans – just like all their ancestors – are confronted with a new situation (details not known) which their existing brain capacity for complexification cannot handle. New cells are therefore required. There then follows a period of stasis in which nothing much happens – previous periods were even longer – until once more there is a major new requirement, but this time instead of expanding (my theory is that further expansion would have caused anatomical problems), the ability to complexify is enhanced. This process, whereby evolutionary changes happen IN RESPONSE to new requirements, can be applied throughout evolution: legs are not changed to flippers in anticipation of the need to swim, and simian arms, legs and pelvises change as a RESULT of descending from the trees, not in anticipation of the need to descend.

DAVID: In today's world climate systems represent God's work, but local weather events are uncontrolled results.

dhw: Last week you had “God setting up climate systems, no local weather events”, and “speciation occurs in general climate conditions, not in a little box contained to a little area of the Earth”.” We were not just talking about today’s conditions. You have now agreed that speciation does take place locally, so what are you saying here? In former times, God did control local conditions after all? Your theories never cease to contradict one another.

DAVID: All I have said is climate is general and under God's control, all weather is local and not under His control. Since God speciates, weather doesn't matter.

dhw: […] We’re talking here of major and permanent changes affecting local areas as opposed to the whole planet. Even with your theory, do you think your God speciates without taking into consideration local environmental conditions under which the new species must live?

DAVID: I think God considers existing climatic conditions.

So does that mean he only speciates when chance produces local environmental changes?

ANT WOUND TREATMENT

DAVID: Pure instinct.

dhw: In all these discussions, we are concerned with your God’s purposes, methods and nature. Why must a theist believe that God preprogrammed or dabbled all the intelligent works of ants, and did not give them the intelligence to do their own designing?

DAVID: Termite nests have intricate air conditioning systems. Provided by God's design help. Same with ants.

dhw: Why do you just keep repeating your theory? Why do you consider it to be impossible for ants and termites to have autonomous intelligence of their own?

DAVID: Because with ID, I accept them as instinctual automatons.

So you believe they can’t be intelligent because you and IDers believe they can’t be intelligent, and you and they believe your God would not have wanted to make them intelligent.


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