More "miscellany" (General)

by David Turell @, Saturday, April 16, 2022, 16:32 (74 days ago) @ dhw

SHAPIRO

DAVID: God's form of evolution by design resembles Darwin's common descent since one stage follows another.

dhw: Except in the Cambrian, where apparently your God decided to create new species from scratch. And you still refuse to answer my question. Does evolution entail cellular combinations and cooperation or doesn’t it? If it does, and we are all descended from bacteria, to which your God gave the autonomous ability to adapt themselves to changing conditions, why should their descendants not have been given the same ability, which is then enhanced by combinations and cooperation?

Not just the Cambrian, but also the 'plant bloom' and many other minor jumps as Gould noted. With a designer in charge, once He establishes the underlying biochemistry. He can create any kind of phenotypic jump in form He wishes. Those wishes cannot be consigned to cells recombining themselves without God running the show. You are describing secondhand designing, which I know creates to many problems to work. All you have is wishful thinking without any evidence. I have the Cambrian on my side.


STEM CELLS

dhw: Still asking and not theorizing: if a leg becomes a flipper, what cells change in what order?

DAVID: Leg to flipper is coded into combined germ cells DNA. Your question involves subsequent embryology development.

dhw: I’m still puzzled. Is it germ cells that change legs into flippers, or do changes get passed from changing legs to the germ cells? In other words, which cells are responsible for the changes to the legs which eventually will become part of the embryo? Sorry if I’m being obtuse!

The fertilized cell (egg and sperm from germ cells) contains all the info needed for a new species. In the subsequent formation of the embryo stem cells are in action.


How to think about science and God.

DAVID: It is your inability to follow my reasoning because of the innate biases you do not recognize in yourself. You are a victim of constant doubt.

dhw: I wouldn’t see myself as a “victim”, but I agree that I have constant doubt. And I certainly agree that I am unable to follow your reasoning when you tell me that you can’t explain your theory, and you don’t understand why I can’t accept that as an explanation.

The explanations you wish are in God's mind. I am not there. I can only study the real history He created. We both know that humans come from Archaea. I know God did it. I cannot know why He did it as He did. I cannot relieve your doubts as below:


Ecosystem 3.2 billion years old

DAVID: Note that ecosystems formed so early. They must be present at all times for life to survive. dhw poopoos their importance as they relate to eventual human arrival. God understood exactly what He had to do in the time it took for Him to evolve humans by His designs.

dhw: Of course there has to be an ecosystem for all life forms to survive. I simply poopoo your illogical proposal that your all-powerful God’s one and only purpose was to design humans and our food, and so he specially designed countless life forms and ecosystems that did not lead to humans, before specially designing umpteen stages of hominin and homo, before specially designing the only homo he wanted (us) and our food. You can’t explain why, despite his all-powerfulness, he “had to” fulfil his one and only purpose that way, but I should accept your inability to explain it as an explanation that makes perfect sense.

Thank you, I think. My explanation is quite clear to me: God designed the only living system that could work in His opinion, warts and all. He chose to design us from Archaea in steps that resembles Darwin's common descent but has jumps (Cambrian, plant bloom) that tormented Darwin. Those jumps require a designer and are too complex for your cell committees even if God gives them the instructions. You forget cells use free reacting molecules, which can make mistakes. God, with hands-on design starts new species with no mistakes all molecules under His direct control before releasing the new model.


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