Death of the Universe (Introduction)
by David Turell , Monday, August 23, 2010, 22:59 (5205 days ago)
The universe will definitely end in 'heat death' expanding under the influence of Dark Energy, reported by the BBC: -http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11030889-This means, if confirmed, that the universe is flat. Settles lots of arguments.
Death of the Universe
by dhw, Tuesday, August 24, 2010, 15:51 (5205 days ago) @ David Turell
DAVID: The universe will definitely end in 'heat death' expanding under the influence of Dark Energy, reported by the BBC.-BBC: Knowing the distribution of dark energy tells astronomers that the Universe will continue to get bigger indefinitely. Eventually it will become a cold, dead wasteland with a temperature approaching what scientists term "absolute zero".-Heat death? Sounds more like the Big Freeze to me.-DAVID: This means, if confirmed, that the universe is flat. Settles lots of arguments.-If confirmed? I can't wait that long.
Death of the Universe
by xeno6696 , Sonoran Desert, Thursday, August 26, 2010, 22:25 (5202 days ago) @ David Turell
Emphasis Added-> The universe will definitely end in 'heat death' expanding under the influence of Dark Energy, reported by the BBC: > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11030889 > > This means, if confirmed, that the universe is flat. Settles lots of arguments.-How do these words coexist? If you're wondering why I've been picking on language recently its because I've been noticing subtle flaws in my own thinking where one statement of my own is refuted in the next; I see patterns in how you post to the board that seem to mix "definiteness" with some level of doubt. I think in some cases pointing these out might help me understand your arguments better by asking for clarification...-I must also point out that the view of how the universe will die seems to change every year; when I was a kid, the "big crunch." When they found out the universe was expanding at an increasing rate, a large, empty, lonely death. -It is also important to note here (for dhw) that "dark matter" and "dark energy" are terms used simply to denote matter and energy that does not emit light... so from what I've gathered, it isn't confirmed "new" or different from other kinds of matter.
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\"Why is it, Master, that ascetics fight with ascetics?\"
\"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics.\"
Death of the Universe
by David Turell , Thursday, August 26, 2010, 22:42 (5202 days ago) @ xeno6696
Emphasis Added > > > The universe will definitely end in 'heat death' expanding under the influence of Dark Energy, reported by the BBC: > > > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11030889 > > > > This means, if confirmed, that the universe is flat. Settles lots of arguments. > > How do these words coexist? > > It is also important to note here (for dhw) that "dark matter" and "dark energy" are terms used simply to denote matter and energy that does not emit light... so from what I've gathered, it isn't confirmed "new" or different from other kinds of matter.-The BBC was quite DEFINITE in its report of a single study using gravitational lensing.-IF CONFIRMED is my editorializing on the article. The Big Crunch has been out of favor for years. The best recent guess has been space is flat and Heat Death is the proper end to expect, 100 billion years from now.These are scientific 'consensus'thoughts, now that the current age of peer review allows consensus control in science, like the Global Warming consensus. Never mind acceptable proof.
Death of the Universe
by xeno6696 , Sonoran Desert, Friday, August 27, 2010, 21:04 (5201 days ago) @ David Turell
Emphasis Added > > > > > The universe will definitely end in 'heat death' expanding under the influence of Dark Energy, reported by the BBC: > > > > > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11030889 > > > > > > This means, if confirmed, that the universe is flat. Settles lots of arguments. > > > > How do these words coexist? > > > It is also important to note here (for dhw) that "dark matter" and "dark energy" are terms used simply to denote matter and energy that does not emit light... so from what I've gathered, it isn't confirmed "new" or different from other kinds of matter. > > The BBC was quite DEFINITE in its report of a single study using gravitational lensing. > -Shows the BBC isn't aware of epistemic issues when reporting scientific claims. -> IF CONFIRMED is my editorializing on the article. The Big Crunch has been out of favor for years. The best recent guess has been space is flat and Heat Death is the proper end to expect, 100 billion years from now.These are scientific 'consensus'thoughts, now that the current age of peer review allows consensus control in science, like the Global Warming consensus. Never mind acceptable proof.-I find it unlikely that its consensus just yet; I only say this because it was only this time last year where I remember SciAm reporting on the "infinite, empty, and cold" death of the universe. I'll stay on my fence, as I am wont to do, heh
--
\"Why is it, Master, that ascetics fight with ascetics?\"
\"It is, brahmin, because of attachment to views, adherence to views, fixation on views, addiction to views, obsession with views, holding firmly to views that ascetics fight with ascetics.\"
Death of the Universe
by David Turell , Saturday, August 28, 2010, 02:27 (5201 days ago) @ xeno6696
> > IF CONFIRMED is my editorializing on the article. The Big Crunch has been out of favor for years. The best recent guess has been space is flat and Heat Death is the proper end to expect, 100 billion years from now.These are scientific 'consensus'thoughts, now that the current age of peer review allows consensus control in science, like the Global Warming consensus. Never mind acceptable proof. > > I find it unlikely that its consensus just yet; I only say this because it was only this time last year where I remember SciAm reporting on the "infinite, empty, and cold" death of the universe. I'll stay on my fence, as I am wont to do, heh-The SciAM infinite, empty, and cold death is the same as the phrase 'heat death', used in past discussions elsewhere. Heat is dead, or gone. Kind of a silly twist on words and meanings.
Death of the Universe
by dhw, Saturday, August 28, 2010, 08:52 (5201 days ago) @ xeno6696
MATT: It is also important to note here (for dhw) that "dark matter" and "dark energy" are terms simply to denote matter and energy that does not emit light...so from what I've gathered, it isn't confirmed "new" or different from other kinds of matter.-Like yourself, I'm totally dependent on what I read, but one area of my sceptical mind reserves the right to question even the existence of dark matter and dark energy, just as it questions the truth of the Big Bang theory. As regards your own comment, here is a quote from a Wikipedia article:-"Dark matter is matter of unknown composition that does not emit or reflect enough electromagnetic radiation to be observed directly, but whose presence can be inferred from gravitational effects on visible matter."-In an earlier post I quoted a revealing comment from another Wikipedia article: "It has been noted that the names 'dark matter' and 'dark energy' serve mainly as expressions of human ignorance, much like the marking of early maps with 'terra incognita'." -You're right that it's not confirmed "new or different". Nothing has been confirmed.
Death of the Universe
by George Jelliss , Crewe, Saturday, December 14, 2013, 11:57 (3997 days ago) @ dhw
Reviving an old thread here. It seems the Big Crunch is back on the agenda-http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131212113034.htm-Or a new form of Collapse of the Universe due to a glitch in the Higgs Field.-But apparently the discovery of one new particle may contradict the whole thesis!
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GPJ
Death of the Universe
by David Turell , Saturday, December 14, 2013, 15:01 (3997 days ago) @ George Jelliss
George: Reviving an old thread here. > It seems the Big Crunch is back on the agenda > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131212113034.htm > > Or a new form of Collapse of the Universe > due to a glitch in the Higgs Field. > > But apparently the discovery of one new particle > may contradict the whole thesis!-Thanks George for the reference. I've not been following closely for two days with other issues taking my time. I never realized retirement could be so time consuming. -Science news writers always like to hype the research to mean more than it does:-"collapse of the universe will happen if a bubble forms in the universe where the Higgs particle-associated Higgs-field will reach a different value than the rest of the universe. If this new value means lower energy, and if the bubble is large enough, the bubble will expand at the speed of light in all directions. All elementary particles inside the bubble will reach a mass that is much heavier than if they were outside the bubble, and thus they will pull each other into supermassive centers. (Credit: Image courtesy of University of Southern Denmark" -The double "ifs" put the entire conjecture into never-never land. Mark Strassler, whose blog I follow, points out that it is important to imagine strange new universes because it opens up areas and ideas for theoretical particle physicists to explore and occasionally stumble into a really important insight. This study is that sort of 'what if' approach, and is taken too seriously by the science writer. The current Higgs, according to Strassler, should be stronger to fit current theories, and in fact there may be as many as 5 Higgs, but the studies need to be at much higher energies than have been available. The LHC will go to higher levels in two years. But the geometry of space-time still favors flatness and continuing expansion. The increased speed of that expansion is certainly not fully understood, requiring the assumption of 'dark energy". I don't buy an outlook for 'crunch' Although Steinhardt keeps pushing for it.
Death of the Universe
by David Turell , Saturday, December 14, 2013, 15:45 (3996 days ago) @ David Turell
As an additional example of playing with the theoretical, here are two folks playing with holographic universes:-"The papers don't suggest that the universe we actually live in is a hologram, Hyakutake et al's computations describe a universe with ten dimensions in the realm of the black hole and a single dimension universe when calculating characteristics of a gravity free two-dimensional universe. The work does provide a hint however, that what can be calculated using different dimensional universes could perhaps one day be calculated for our own. That of course would imply that what we see and do here might actually be occurring elsewhere and we are merely experiencing its holographic representation."- Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-12-credence-theory-universe-hologram.html#jCp
Death of the Universe
by dhw, Sunday, December 15, 2013, 08:39 (3996 days ago) @ George Jelliss
GEORGE: Reviving an old thread here. It seems the Big Crunch is back on the agenda-http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131212113034.htm-Or a new form of Collapse of the Universe due to a glitch in the Higgs Field. But apparently the discovery of one new particle may contradict the whole thesis!-Thank you for this, George. Here are two quotes that deserve the Royal Society Gold Medal for Nebulosity:-"The phase transition will start somewhere in the universe and spread from there. Maybe the collapse has already started somewhere in the universe and right now it is eating its way into the rest of the universe. Maybe a collapse is starting right now right here. Or maybe it will start far away from here in a billion years. We do not know," says Jens Frederik Colding Krog.-Although the new calculations predict that a collapse is now more likely than ever before, it is actually also possible, that it will not happen at all. It is a prerequisite for the phase change that the universe consists of the elementary particles that we know today, including the Higgs particle. If the universe contains undiscovered particles, the whole basis for the prediction of phase change disappears. "Then the collapse will be canceled," says Jens Frederik Colding Krog.-www.AgnosticWeb.com is proud to bring you the very latest findings of its own research team:-"Following our prediction that the indefinite article particle is bound to be found," says Professor dhw, "I can reassure the world that the universe has not begun to collapse, and will not even begin to collapse within the next billion years. My team and I are prepared to bet on this at odds of 1 billion to 1. Stakes (not less than $100) should be sent as soon as possible, please, by electronic transfer to The DHW Space Research Centre, Taunton, England."