More "miscellany" (General)

by dhw, Saturday, December 11, 2021, 13:14 (40 days ago) @ David Turell

Reality: God is a mathematician
DAVID: No matter how you twist my description of my God, He is not human in any way…

How can he be “not human in any way” if we mimic him and he probably/possibly has thought patterns, emotions and logic similar to ours? Please stop contradicting yourself.

DAVID…is highly purposeful, and His thoughts are much deeper than ours ever are. I am forced to use human descriptive terms as there are none that fit God.

In my alternatives, he is also highly purposeful, and of course the powers of a being who can create universes and life etc. would exceed ours immeasurably. How does that come to mean that he designed every life form, natural wonder etc. for the sole purpose of designing humans plus food?

Spider webs
QUOTE: “The Goulds postulate that spiders have a form of mapping ability that enables them to implement general design principles in a wide variety of circumstances. This is demonstrated, for instance, by spiders successfully making repairs to damaged webs. (DAVID’s bold)

DAVID: these webs are of magical designs, not invented by tiny spider brains appearing through natural evolutionary processes. Only a design algorithm fits.

dhw: Size is irrelevant! Tiny computers (artificial intelligence) can contain masses of information. According to you, natural brains (producing natural intelligence) have the ability to interpret a very limited quantity of information, and yet are too tiny to use that information in order to spin a web, build a nest, or find the plants off which they feed. Once more, what is the use of an ability if you are incapable of using it?

DAVID: The spiders ARE given an algorithm to use. They are not incapable of using it at will.

Once a survival strategy succeeds, it will be repeated indefinitely until conditions change. Different spiders build different webs “in a wide variety of circumstances”. So now what are you saying? Your God pops in with a different algorithm for every different set of circumstances? Or could it be that spiders have learned to use their innate “ability to interpret” in order to adapt their survival strategies to different conditions?

Heliosphere protection
DAVID: But I accept what God did and don't claim it is illogical. I'm willing to wait for research explanations which continue to arrive.

dhw: You claim that your interpretation of what God did and why he did it is logical, but you can’t explain it!

DAVID: Why can't you wait for research explanations? I do.

I have no alternative to waiting, which is why I sit on the fence. But you have already reached your fixed conclusions, and so you only “wait” in the hope that your theory will be confirmed, and in the meantime you reject any theory different from yours. You just can’t wait, can you?;-)

DAVID (under “gravitational waves”) : So a black hole does not destroy information. That may solve the information paradox related to black holes. dhw should be willing to wait for research results, but unfortunately he isn't and constantly complains about God's deeds before they are understood.

I have no complaint about God’s deeds if he exists, and have no theory about black holes and the information paradox. My complaints are directed solely at your illogical interpretation (a) of what God did, and (b) of why he did it.

Ecosystem importance
DAVID: Each system was useful in its time.

dhw: But most were irrelevant to current time (i.e. to humans)

DAVID: Of course, as you pursue segmentalism in evolution.

Evolution is the history of countless branches of life, most of which had no connection with humans. Thank you for acknowledging their irrelevance to humans, which is the reason why your anthropocentric theory of evolution is incomprehensible even to you.

DAVID: Evolution, by definition is a continuum of one stage leading to another. You want it chopped up into discontinuous parts.

dhw: But it is not a continuum of all stages of all species leading only to humans plus food!

DAVID: It branches in all directions to supply food energy!!!

You’ve got it. Evolution branched out in all directions, and not just in the direction of humans and their food! And all life forms on all branches need “food energy”. In other words, it does not show that every single life form on every single branch was specially designed as part of the “goal of evolving [= designing] humans” and their food. You keep accepting that you have no idea why your God would conform to such a theory, and we have agreed to leave it at that, but still you go on trying to defend it by editing out the illogicalities.

Upright posture
See “Cellular intelligence

Evolution of consciousness.
QUOTE: Of course, how the world is in itself and how it seems to us must be different: All perception has to be mediated through the senses. But to call these representations “hallucinations” invites the misunderstanding that we never have a grip on reality at all.

I think the critic has aptly summed up an argument which gets us nowhere!

DAVID: I'm currently reading Bruce Greyson's book 'After', about NDE's, and will discuss it when I'm finished.

I can only admire you for your tireless research, and will look forward to your findings.

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