More "miscellany" (General)

by David Turell @, Tuesday, December 07, 2021, 16:45 (44 days ago) @ dhw

Reality: God is a mathematician

DAVID: We may mimic Him in limited ways, but you have Him mimicking us!!

dhw: If he created us, then his thought patterns came first, and ours must mirror (“mimic”) his, not the other way round! This is just another way of saying that we have thought patterns in common, so it is absurd to admit this and then to complain if a theory shows him to have thought patterns in common with ours.

You forget my note of 'limited ways'. We differ from God in that we cannot attain His depth of knowledge or thought capacity.

Monarchs use toxic milkweed
DAVID: Immune responses are automatic and designed by God. Ditto Monarchs

dhw: Even if your fixed belief was true and 3.8 billion years ago your God designed every undabbled antibody/antidote for the rest of life’s history, it wouldn’t change or explain the fact the invader kills some victims but others survive, and that the immune response FOLLOWS the invasion and is not concurrent with it but has to be developed.

DAVID: Yes, by God's designed mechanism for producing new antibodies.

dhw: I am quite prepared to accept the possibility that your God designed the mechanism for producing new antibodies! I do not accept that the new antibodies are already there when the invader strikes, and I keep pointing out that NEW antibodies are a RESPONSE to new invaders, which suggests that the mechanism is able to process new information, communicate with other cells, take decisions etc. – all the hallmarks of intelligence. Nor do I accept that new invaders kill every victim without there being any survivors.

You are once again forgetting the Monarch's precise lifecycle of required poisonous milkweed munching. Every caterpillar must be protected from the start of the lifecycle which, in my view, appeared all at once by God's design.


dhw: Which of my theories do you agree with, then?[…]

DAVID: You view a large bush of hominins/homos as God's free-for-all in making H. sapiens. I view it differently, fully under God's control as a means of developing different attributes for the final sapiens to have. The 'right-on' is my re-interpretation of your view of the pre-human bush.

dhw: You have ignored my alternatives (experimentation, or a flow of new ideas). So my theory of a free-for-all is “right on” except that you believe the exact opposite. And you still ignore the incongruity of the theory bolded above.

All incongruities are your fallacious invention.

evolution driven by extinctions
DAVID: Life and inorganic systems are intertwined as this study shows. Changes in the amount of living matter can alter the climate and cause extinctions which change the course of evolution. These systems are in a delicate balance, without which we wouldn't be here. The huge bush of life is simply a part of those required systems, something dhw doesn't understand when he asks why God didn't simply produce humans instead of all that really happened.

dhw: I do not question what really happened. I only ask why your all-powerful God would go to all the trouble of deliberately designing all those life forms – the vast majority of which had no connection with humans plus food – and now all these environmental changes and extinctions in order to produce us and our food, although according to you he was perfectly capable of designing new species directly (e.g. the Cambrian). You admit that you have no idea and I should ask God to explain it, and yet you still insist that it’s logical.

Once again you question God's obvious logic while accepting God's history. As for your total misunderstanding of the Cambrian, I've explained it before: necessary biochemical processes were developed pre-Cambrian. Once in place God could design the new forms which are the basis of current animal life. The obvious logic, which you constantly ignore, is God prefers to evolve, not directly create. Since you question God's actions, why not ask you to ask Him?

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